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thomas aagaard
10-23-2016, 01:39 AM
Love the fact that you added more drill motions to the game.

But:
Iam pretty sure the way "parade rest" is done is an reenactorism.

There are two version in the books and both appear to have been used.
The first is found in the part about how to relive a Sentinel. And it is not for use when at parade... but you can find photographs where it is uses anyway.

Parade rest from Hardee's revised and US infantry 1861- rifle manual of arms. (and casey for that matter)
Parade —REST.
At the command, rest, turn the piece on
the heel of the butt, the barrel to the left, the
muzzle in front of the centre of the body ;
seize it at the same time with the left hand just
above, and with the right at the upper band ;
carry the right foot six inches to the rear, the
left knee slightly bent.


US infantry tactics 1861 musket manual of arms.
PARADE— REST!
At the last word of this command, the soldier will carry the right
foot six inches in rear of the left heel, the left knee slightly bent, the body
upright upon the right leg; the musket resting against the hollow of the
right shoulder, the hands crossed in front, the backs of
them outward, and the left hand uppermost.
At the word, ATTENTION!, the soldier will
resume the correct position at ordered arms. In the
positions here indicated, the soldier will remain silent
and motionless ; and it is particularly enjoined upon
all officers to cause the commands above given, on
the part of the soldier, to be executed with great
briskness and spirit.

US and CSA army regulation are identical:
When looking up what the regulations say about parades you get this.

"PARADE-REST!" At the last word of this command, the
soldier will carry the right foot six inches in rear of the left heel, the left knee slightly bent,
the body upright upon the right leg; the musket resting against the hollow of the right
shoulder, the hands crossed in front, the backs of them outward, and the left hand uppermost.
At the word "ATTENTION!" the soldier will resume the correct position at ordered arms. In
the positions here indicated, the soldier will remain silent and motionless; and it is
particularly enjoined upon all officers to cause the commands above given, on the part of
tale soldier, to be executed with great briskness and spirit.
Officers on all duties under arms are to have their swords drawn, without waiting for any
words of command for that purpose.
Revised United States Army Regulations of 1861, with an Appendix Containing the Changed
and Laws Affecting Army Regulations and Articles of War to June 25, 1863 (Washington,
U.S. Gov't Printing Office), para's 335-36; "Regulations for the Armies of the Confederate
States", (Richmond, War Department, 1863), para's 322-23 (Emphasis added).


In place rest
In place rest is not wrong, but there are just very few requirements so almost everything goes.
According to the U.S. Tactics:
37. The instructor, wishing to rest the men, without deranging the alignment, will first-cause
arms to be supported, or ordered, and then command: In place-REST.
38. At this command, the men will no longer be constrained to preserve silence or steadiness
of position; but they will always keep one or other heel on the alignment.
U.S. Infantry Tactics 1861 (School of the Company), pg. 96.
According to Hardee's Revised Tactics:
If the instructor wishes merely to relieve the attention of the recruit, he commands, in place-
REST; the soldier is then not required to preserve his immobility, but he always keeps one of
his feet in its place.
Rifle and Infantry Tactics, Revised and Improved by Brig. Gen. W.J. Hardee, C.S. Army
(1862), (School of the Soldier), para. 73.

Only rule - one foot on line... so in the perfect world you should add different ways of standing, animation of taking a drink or finding something to eat and similar... But I know this is not a priority.

-----
much of this is just my language and large parts are copy+pasted from an article by Mark (Silas) Tackitt found here:
http://44tennessee.tripod.com/rest.html
(or copy+pasted from the relevant booklet version of the drill books.... booklets also compiled by him)

RhettVito
10-23-2016, 03:05 AM
Thank you for this !!!!

TrustyJam
10-23-2016, 08:05 AM
Please offer up images instead of long texts only. Makes it much quicker and easier for us to compare.

- Trusty

thomas aagaard
10-23-2016, 02:45 PM
It was late... should have added some before posting.


Parade rest from the regulations about parades. or "against the shoulder method"
This is similar to how you do it without arms.
Drawing from baxters drill book (1861). same language as regulations.(no drawing in regulations)
4672

Here is a photographer of men from the 2nd Wisconsin V.I. Company C, likely taken in May or early June 1862 at Fredericksburg
4671


Parade rest as descried in Hardee's revised and US tactics 1861 for for use when reliving sentinels. or across the body" method
(Hardee and US tactics 1861 don't have a drawing.)

Uptons 1866 book, yes after the war, but the text is similar.
4673

The "classic" picture of US colored troops:
4674



The issue is naturally that we got two versions that was clearly used.

The against the shoulder method as descried in the regulation, looks to be mostly used during the early war. And the simple fact that the across the body method can be found at the end of schools of the company in the main drill books makes it more likely that the civilians turned officers have used this. Instead of something found somewhere in the middle of the army regulations.

Upton in his post war book remove it and make the other version the only one do point in this direction.


As Mark (Silas) Tackitt write in his article:
A caveat: Although the against-the-shoulder method is taken directly from the regulations, photos of soldiers standing in this manner are rare. The against-the-shoulder method is seen more frequently in early war photos than late war photos. Some argue the shoulder method was a holdover from the smoothbore days which was also practiced by companies using the two band rifle with the sword bayonet. The bulk of wartime photos picture individual soldiers or entire units standing in the typical, musket-across-the-body method. The across-the-body method is frequently seen with companies using the rifle musket. So, what is proper? Depends upon the manual, small arm, theater, and year portrayed by the reenacting unit.

I would suggest adding the "across the body methode" for use with the manual of arms for rifles. The one in the game atm.
And the "against the shoulder method" for use with units using the manual of arms for muskets. If/when it gets added at some point.

--------
In place rest.
Here it is natually not possible to show how its done since the only rule was the bold part.
"At this command, the men will no longer be constrained to preserve silence or steadiness
of position; but they will always keep one or other heel on the alignment."

Conway
10-25-2016, 01:24 AM
Please add in present arms :)

Kyle422
10-25-2016, 01:35 AM
This should be in the alpha section! moving

Joshua Chamberlain
10-26-2016, 10:08 PM
i think the ones in game are fine tbh

David Dire
10-26-2016, 10:29 PM
Perhaps laying down? I say this with artillery in mind.

yoyo8346
10-27-2016, 01:04 PM
Please...

http://i.imgur.com/i0PtpIL.png

Lance Rawlings
10-28-2016, 12:45 AM
I do agree with what I've seen here. Love the new "emotes!" It would be awesome to add a present arms, as this would be the way to salute an officer or another company while formed as a company. The current salute would be directed by an individual to a superior officer, which I also like.


4698
"Present Arms"

Are there any plans to add Support Arms (a very common arm to relieve the right arm). Also, I believe Secure Arms would be a very nice arm to add in correlation to piece fouling, as secure arms is used to prevent rain from getting down the barrel, while protecting the lock.


4699
"Support Arms"

4700
"Secure Arms"


One last question: While there be a Guard Against Cavalry (which is just higher than the current Guard against Infantry) position for the bayonet to defend from cavalry in game?


4701
"Guard Against Cavalry"

[RG]Chewie
10-28-2016, 05:06 PM
Are you going to include salutes,rests and the different movement signals with the sword?

Hinkel
10-28-2016, 08:06 PM
Chewie;49565']Are you going to include salutes,rests and the different movement signals with the sword?

Yes. :)

[RG]Chewie
10-28-2016, 08:14 PM
Yes. :)
I figured but it's still nice to hear :)

Oleander
10-29-2016, 04:46 PM
Parade Rest with the musket in front was more common later on when the standardized drill, Hardee's, became the norm. I'd say that most of the early war units would have used the old militia style with the musket against the arm. Hard to say who would have used what though.

RhettVito
10-30-2016, 02:31 PM
My thoughts if they would add other types for the of manual of arms it would have to be tied to the company tool . Furthermore the company commander would decide witch manual they would use .


Pros and Cons
Pro -- Units could be more unique with the ability to use the manual of there choosing from the time period . Manuals such as Gilham's , Casey's and Hardee's .
Con -- Units would no longer be consistent with the option to use a different manual . Henceforth this would make units look a lot more sporadic in drill .




If you have any point of view to on this please reply .

Oleander
10-30-2016, 07:58 PM
It would be interesting if units could be allowed to choose a drill set for their animations.

TrustyJam
10-30-2016, 08:00 PM
It would be interesting if units could be allowed to choose a drill set for their animations.

We might consider something like that in a few years. For now, we've got our hands full with just one set. :)

- Trusty

Hatchmo
11-02-2016, 02:41 PM
Just a side note and not really a huge deal, but during the salute, the left hand should come across the rifle, not the chest.


Salutations according to the 1861 Revised Regulations for the Army of the United States
Article XXIX

Section: 253. It is equally the duty of non-commissioned officers and soldiers at all times and in all situations, to pay pthe proper compliments to officers of the navy and marines, and to officers of other geiments, when in uniform, as to officers of their own particular gegiments and corps.

254. Courtesy among military men is indispensable to discipline. Respect to superiors will not be confined to obedience on duty, but will be extended to all occasions. It is always the duty of the inferior to accost or to offer first the customary salutation, and of the superior to return such complimentary notice.

255. Sergeants, with swords drawn, will salute by bringing them to present -- with muskets, by bringing the left hand across the body, as to strike the musket near the right shoulder. Corporals out of the ranks and privates not sentries, will carry their muskets at a shoulder as the sergeants, and salute in like manner.

256. When a soldier without arms, or with side arms only, meets an officer, he is to raise his hand to the right side of the visor of his cap, palm to the front, elbow raised as high as the shoulder, looking at the same time in a respectful and soldier-like manner at the officer, who will return the compliment thus offered.

257. A non-commissioned officer or soldier being seated, and without particular occupation, will rise on the approach of an officer, and make the customary salutation. If standing, he will turn toward the officer for the same purpose. If the parties remain in the same place or on the same ground, shuch compliments need not be repeated.

[Typed word for word from the Regulations] The Confederate version issued in 1863, is word for word in this regard/topic of salutations (salutes).

Hinkel
11-02-2016, 03:31 PM
Like we already said, you should better provide us with pictures or better a video, you doing such poses.
A wall of text is most likely misleading. We want to see it from different angles and such ;)

This way its easier to tell the animator, what he should animate. He can't work with text files. So we would be pleased, if you provide us with some pictures of you, doing the poses ;)

MK81
11-03-2016, 07:42 AM
Currently the Technical Alpha (Nov 16) has a stance indicator in the lower right corner of the display in the form of a white soldier image. The image is temporarily displayed to indicate to the user the change in stance, which is useful.

Will the additional stances also be getting this feature?

I would like to see the stances displayed in the tactical view in the same way, so that if you have been stationary for a period of time you can see what position you are in by pressing the T-key to see the image from the tactical display. If possible, an inclusion of the stance written ID to confirm for those who are unsure if they are correctly positioned next to the image.

I realise that users could easily hit the F4 key (which is a nice feature) now to do this, but the tactical display would allow the user to continue to function without seconds of delay switching views.

TrustyJam
11-03-2016, 07:50 AM
Currently the Technical Alpha (Nov 16) has a stance indicator in the lower right corner of the display in the form of a white soldier image. The image is temporarily displayed to indicate to the user the change in stance, which is useful.

Will the additional stances also be getting this feature?

I would like to see the stances displayed in the tactical view in the same way, so that if you have been stationary for a period of time you can see what position you are in by pressing the T-key to see the image from the tactical display. If possible, an inclusion of the stance written ID to confirm for those who are unsure if they are correctly positioned next to the image.

I realise that users could easily hit the F4 key (which is a nice feature) now to do this, but the tactical display would allow the user to continue to function without seconds of delay switching views.

We'll most likely implement a system similar to this in the near future:

Pressing T (Tactical view) will also bring up this information in the lower right corner:

4761

In the case of a player being in an emote position such as Salute, the rifle position text (right shoulder shift) will be replaced by "Salute".

Whenever the player is activating something a small message will be shown in the corner telling the player what action he has started like this example where the player enters double quick:

4762

We believe this system will give you much better information instead of the lacking stance indicator. :)

- Trusty

MK81
11-03-2016, 08:06 AM
Cheers Trusty, I'm really happy with that little nugget of info.