Causes of the Civil War

[F. L. Villarreal]

This debate has been going on since the last Civil War veteran's passed away and maybe even before that. So what I will say is PURELY subjective based off of facts and formulating a prudent opinion. Just like anyone else on here...historian or not all anyone can do is speculate.

So my opinion is that Slavery was not at the forethought of anyone's mind until President Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation. As mentioned earlier in the post the northern states in the years following the Revolution were being tariffed unfairly. People quickly lost sight of what a Democratic Republic is, with the exception of the disgruntled southern states...Slavery was an ugly thing but we have to understand that while ugly it was the norm back then. There are things we do today that I completely disagree with but people will argue it to the bone. All we can do is progress while keeping our morality and the principles outlined by our forefathers in 1775 and 1776.

[KoreanPCA]

Thanks developer. I'm not an expert on that flag actually, that's your field I bet. Granting acceptability and scholarship and just a good time. Continuity with Civil War games I played in the 90's and 2000's for PC told me, I had never seen that flag. It did begin showing up in the genre. I'd be careful on religious correctness cover ups after all. That's whats not a big deal today, no fun-factor reason to cover that up. Those games used to only display the Dixie flag in continuity rather than, I guess it was an earlier national flag. I began seeing the one used here later on. Consider the moving scene for All americans in the popular American silent film "Birth of a Nation", the red background, the blood of a fallen woman to the union, the cross of an unconquered civilization.

@ Villarreal Whatever it is about the "forethought of anyone's mind on slavery" point you're making, ALL Americans today after the Great Migration for African Americans, scarcely could sympathize with the Average Southerner in states with 50% or Less White, 50% or More Enslaved Black, populations. Way of Life, Gone With the Wind,a Way of Life, Minstrel Tunes, keeping slaves separated, indoctrinated for service, cult songs for the Home, associations among slaves or to the master, thankfulness for their situation.

The tune "Dixieland" is simply one of these minstrel songs, consider a white man performing for neighbor and friend in black face , wife and next door neighbor, I'm not sure if its a popular song to Give slaves , which is a different genre and thing to measure. It says they want to be there, that they're given Christian values of marriage, they're docile.

Abraham Lincoln in reconciliation of course liked "Dixieland" he also liked, a very popular tune through out the country, Listen to the Mockingbird, made in 1855, 30 million copies sold a Very popular tune, that's more than the country's population at the time. The most popular tune of I think its 1859? It speaks of loss of a wife/ loved one their shared faith basically, the Mockingbird like the Christian dove. Presbyterian symbology highlights the dove bringing down the Word and Anglicans have national Trees which highlights roots I Think, basically. Spin-off media the popular acceptance book/movie series To Kill a Mockingbird. Louis Armstrong's Do You Know What It Means to Miss New Orleans. Listen to the Mockingbird was Both sides I think? A Marching tune.

[thomas aagaard]

That is because "Birth of a Nation" is a piece of distrusting racism myth making, and propaganda...
And if you think all Americans find that moving, I guess you don't consider black people Americans?

---
This game will include the flags that was used during the actual campaign. No flag will be excluded or included for religious or modern political reasons.
It is as simple as that.

And I think you need to understand that religious was NOT the cause of the civil war, and it is not a issue that is relevant to this game.
If you want to debate religious I suggest your find another forum.

People quickly lost sight of what a Democratic Republic is, with the exception of the disgruntled southern states...

BS
The founding fathers set up a system where the citizens, true the electoral college, elected the president.
thanks to the 3/5th rule the south was over represented for decades both in Congress and in electing the president.

They used this power to limit free speech in Congress.
They used this power to violate the right of the northern states and the right of citizens in the north.
(Fugitive Slave Act of 1850)

They had no issue with a strong federal government, as long as they controlled it and could use it to defend the institution of slavery.

Then the south lost a legal election in 1860 they decided they didn't want to accept a legally elected president and they rebelled.

So clearly the south was in no way remembering how the founding fathers wanted the republic to work... they where breaking the system set up by the Founding Fathers and trying to destroy the Union they fought to create.

The world had moved on from how it was in 1789... and things had changed both north and south.
(For one thing, in 1789 slavery was dying out... then cotton became the big crop. and the US was no longer just hugging the Atlantic)


The idyllic Union set up in 1789 didn't exist any longer by 1860... the Union had become much, much bigger and a lot different.

[KoreanPCA]

@Thomas that's a lot of strong charges, sir! It is sort of the point, I'm not encouraging racism with a flag that African Americans in segments disagree with in usage. However, the 2nd Ku Klux Klan that racist movie inspired was throughout America, inspiring in the 1900's the broad geography of America. I don't have definitive historical evidence for the other Dixie flag especially out here in this context, its used in movie, Most computer games, it does fly over the Mississippi capitol.

That both sides were Deeply religious is as common as public grade schools, the policy for national education to teach the Civil War, I'm hardly much more than expanding the give and take and meaning on that. Jesus Loves the Little Children, Battle Hymn of the Republic, are religious tunes on the Union side and the entire United States that are patriotic. Those are Today Patriotic songs.

I'm even going to break in your conversation with vallarreal. Most of that listing of grievances for the Union, is true. However Andrew Jackson, on the 20 dollar bill, dealt with a secessionist South Carolina on tariffs, all agree a lead up to the Civil War. Andrew Jackson, was after all however, a planter, a southerner, as president, wanted to curb states rights and handled the secessionist threat strongly as President, however he used in the 1812 battle of New Orleans upwards 80% militia forces from states, lived In That World of state controls, a limited government Asking power From the states, and opposed the Federal Bank that eventually leads to the Treasury, national paper currency, anti-federalist on issues. The American Eagle is a symbol known throughout the world in context of the Roman Eagle, or the Russian Double Eagle of Western or Eastern Rome. As the Union's symbol, it represents a right to trample and tyranny. The saltire cross of Scotland represents the unconquered of Rome. The South wanted no tariffs because of their , Effective, competitive cotton production, while the north pushed protectionist tariffs for their national developing industries in the north. The South expected recognition based on trade and status around the world, but didn't receive it, a very heated topic, concerning Britain or France.

Thomas I won't crowd the thread with our love triangle here. Birth of a Nation is historical like the 2nd ku klux klan and doesn't today represent active cultural forces and doesn't promote racism. I'm not aware of tariffs on any products, denoting protectionism of US production against outside trade. Especially in the way that its a narrative in the war that the Northern industrialism and the Southern "feudal society" as one book put it, yet not 'pre-capitalism', had disagreeing economies toward distrust. Its true on the last point, that Georgia , Alabama and Mississippi, previously being one Georgia territory, were split Particularly to gain Representatives the way they were. Also that the Union was hesitant to let in the slave state Texas without tipping the balance of power, its true that before the war that the two sides tried to use their government? Its notable I believe it was, in 12 million in the north, 5 million of the South with 4 million slaves from west Africa, neither party actually Needed to cater in campaigns to the South, and the states did not have Abraham Lincoln on the ballot in the first place.

[thomas aagaard]

Iam not saying that you are promoting racism. But that "Birth of a Nation" is.


The south sure wanted Tariffs on Tobacco and sugar... and they got them.

The south had no issue with a strong federal government, as long as it promoted their agenda... no different than the states in the north.

[Dman979]

So my opinion is that Slavery was not at the forethought of anyone's mind until President Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation.

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you here.

The CSA constitution explicitly preserved slavery in the South. Here are a few examples, with some emphasis added:

"No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed."

Article IV Section 2 of the CSA constitution added language about slavery.
In fact, a lot of language was changed to protect slavery. Even the sections regarding taxes on industrial products is designed to protect slavery.

At Alabama's secesion convention, G.T. Yelverton said "The question of Slavery is the rock upon which the Old Government split: it is the cause of secession."

Robert Hardy Smith (also from Alabama) said,

I congratulate the country that the strife has been put to rest forever, and that American slavery is to stand before the world as it is, and on its own merits. We have now placed our domestic institution, and secured its rights unmistakably, in the Constitution. We have sought by no euphony to hide its name. We have called our negroes 'slaves', and we have recognized and protected them as persons and our rights to them as property.

South Carolina congressman Laurence M. Keitt said in January 1860, "The anti-slavery party contends that slavery is wrong in itself, and the Government is a consolidated national democracy. We of the South contend that slavery is right..."

In December that same year, he said, "Our people have come to this on the question of slavery" during the secession convention.

South Carolina's secession ordinance said that the main reason for leaving was, "...increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery...."

I could go on here, but I feel I've made my point.

[yoyo8346]

South Carolina's secession ordinance said that the main reason for leaving was, "...increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery...."

I was going to mention that.

[dmurray6]

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you here.

The CSA constitution explicitly preserved slavery in the South. Here are a few examples, with some emphasis added:

"No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed."

Article IV Section 2 of the CSA constitution added language about slavery.
In fact, a lot of language was changed to protect slavery. Even the sections regarding taxes on industrial products is designed to protect slavery.

At Alabama's secesion convention, G.T. Yelverton said "The question of Slavery is the rock upon which the Old Government split: it is the cause of secession."

Robert Hardy Smith (also from Alabama) said,

I congratulate the country that the strife has been put to rest forever, and that American slavery is to stand before the world as it is, and on its own merits. We have now placed our domestic institution, and secured its rights unmistakably, in the Constitution. We have sought by no euphony to hide its name. We have called our negroes 'slaves', and we have recognized and protected them as persons and our rights to them as property.

South Carolina congressman Laurence M. Keitt said in January 1860, "The anti-slavery party contends that slavery is wrong in itself, and the Government is a consolidated national democracy. We of the South contend that slavery is right..."

In December that same year, he said, "Our people have come to this on the question of slavery" during the secession convention.

South Carolina's secession ordinance said that the main reason for leaving was, "...increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery...."

I could go on here, but I feel I've made my point.

Dman, with all due respect, would you kindly perform some research on what would have likely become the 13th amendment of The Constitution, had it not been for Sumter and the start of the war. In case you're not familiar with what I'm referring to, it was called the Corwin Amendment. Check that out, look at the time frame, and come back and rebuttal your own remarks on how Congress and the President did not have slavery at their forethought, well actually, they had it at their forethought, just not the abolition of it. The reason this rebuttals your remarks, is because it occurred BEFORE there was even a CSA Constitution. There were many resolutions presented by Congress to address slavery, but the Corwin Amendment was not geared toward abolishing the institution, but more concerned with solidifying the Union.

Abraham Lincoln, in his first inaugural address on March 4, said of the Corwin Amendment:

"I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution—which amendment, however, I have not seen—has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service ... holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable."

What a nice Mr. Lincoln, the "Great Emancipator"......hmmmm

Thanks

[TrustyJam]

What a nice Mr. Lincoln, the "Great Emancipator"......hmmmm

Would you rather he had not tried to end the war by political means and jumped straight into the carnage instead I wonder?

- Trusty

[Conway]

Using the battle flag would only make the south seem more like a rebellion then an action nation that functioned for a couple of years. Using the official flag is much better.
Also, I don't think the battle-flag was used because of any "overtly" religious reasons. It was just a rejected flag design that the army used so they wouldn't be confused for union troops. The cross is likely more so meant to resemble the cross of Burgundy then the St. Andrew's cross as Spanish influence was very prominent in the south compared to Scottish influence.

In response so some of the previous posts as well. People need to understand how wars are started and the difference between how wars are fought. The Civil War may well have been started due to political disagreements about slavery and its expansion west. But that's not so say every every Tom, Dick and Harry enlisted for this reason. This is why the entire "Most Southerners didn't own slaves thing" doesn't make a very big difference. Because the ones who actually started the war, did own slaves or where very pro slavery. They could tell their men they where fighting for Southern Rights, or against Tyranny or for their god. People needed to believe this is why the fought, its ideals like this that would make them fight.

To put it into perspective, the first world war was fought because of a string of alliances that was triggered due to the assassination of Franz Ferdinand. That's a fact. In order to get the millions of volunteers for the commonwealth they decided to say we where fighting for our liberty, our King and our Country. Because "Fight because of our alliances" isn't quite such a rousing moral. Keep this in mind when looking at the real causes of the U.S Civil War.