Destruction

[Josy_Wales]

I have seen this happen before, but I struggle to find words to describe this unopposed stripping and destruction of history and culture. Jefferson Davis and Robert E Lee monuments are next.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/04/24...monuments.html

[A. P. Hill]

Clearly a bunch of misled wanna be victims. Oh well.

[thomas aagaard]

Huge difference between monuments made in the first few decades after the war, by the veterans them self, honoring the veterans. (like the monuments we see at the battlefields)
And some of the later monuments made in the 20th century with a very, very clear white supremacy agenda.

Two very different contexts.

The first was about the war and honoring the veterans And deserve every possible legal protection.
The 2nd was all about then modern politics, and just like it was right of people to put them up it is the right of people to remove them today.


And this one is not even about the civil war, but something that happened in 1874...
It was made in the 1890ties when the city disenfranchises the colored population.. It was all about then modern politics and the civil war was just (mis)used for a political agenda.
And the text that was added in the 1930ties have a very, clear white supremacy agenda...


Also calling it "destruction" is just not correct.
Moving them to another location is not destruction. (and it is not the first time it was moved)

This specific monument should be in a museum... where it can be used as an example of how monuments was used as politic tools to promote white supremacy in the south during the late 19th and early 20th century... This will also help protect the monument from vandalism.

[Joshua Chamberlain]

being from Louisiana and currently living in Louisiana i think they should leave them be but i am not angry at them all it is a fancy rock i still have paintings and books about them the confederate museum is still there being from Europe i cant understand why you get worked up over this its just childish - born Louisianan and civil war reenactor

[Leifr]

Being from Europe has zero bearing on this.

[thomas aagaard]

This is a rather basic question about what we consider history worthy of preservation. and how to preserve it... and it is not that easy a question.


And a good example of how history was misused for a white supremacy agenda in the late 19th century and into the 20th century... and how people today misuse this as an attack on the csa veterans.

In this case the OP call it a "CSA monument", and use this as an example of an anti CSA agenda...
But the monument got nothing to do with the CSA... but had everything to do with a white supremacy agenda in the late 19th century
It don't even honor the CSA or CSA soldiers... but white people who used intimidation and murder to suppress the black vote in the 1870ties.

It is simply dishonest... it was a misuse of history back then and it is today.


Now, the moment someone want to remove a statue honoring the common soldier, It will join you on the barricades... but this one deserve to be put in a museum and used as example of political propaganda.

[Josy_Wales]

This is a rather basic question about what we consider history worthy of preservation. and how to preserve it... and it is not that easy a question.


And a good example of how history was misused for a white supremacy agenda in the late 19th century and into the 20th century... and how people today misuse this as an attack on the csa veterans.

In this case the OP call it a "CSA monument", and use this as an example of an anti CSA agenda...
But the monument got nothing to do with the CSA... but had everything to do with a white supremacy agenda in the late 19th century
It don't even honor the CSA or CSA soldiers... but white people who used intimidation and murder to suppress the black vote in the 1870ties.

It is simply dishonest... it was a misuse of history back then and it is today.


Now, the moment someone want to remove a statue honoring the common soldier, It will join you on the barricades... but this one deserve to be put in a museum and used as example of political propaganda.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[thomas aagaard]

So if it was not deliberate, then why did you use a case about a monument for something that happened in the 1870 as an examble of CSA monuments being removed?

[dmurray6]

I understand your response to Josy_Wales, and see where the misuse you describe occurs, but I have other disagreements with how this is all going down (the actions in LA, not your post). The problem with these sorts of debates, or more importantly what's happening on the ground in Louisiana, is that both sides are never happy, and thus, it becomes a task that never reaches a compromised outcome.

This is a rather basic question about what we consider history worthy of preservation. and how to preserve it... and it is not that easy a question.


And a good example of how history was misused for a white supremacy agenda in the late 19th century and into the 20th century... and how people today misuse this as an attack on the csa veterans.

In this case the OP call it a "CSA monument", and use this as an example of an anti CSA agenda...
But the monument got nothing to do with the CSA... but had everything to do with a white supremacy agenda in the late 19th century
It don't even honor the CSA or CSA soldiers... but white people who used intimidation and murder to suppress the black vote in the 1870ties.

Was the original purpose of the monument one that was meant to honor a not so worthy cause, absolutely! However, As noted by this article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/18/u...vote.html?_r=0,

In 1993, the City Council voted to remove the obelisk, but instead the plaque was covered with a new one that read: “In honor of those Americans on both sides who died in the Battle of Liberty Place” and called it “a conflict of the past that should teach us lessons for the future.” This compromise in 1993 seemed to not do the job, as people who saw and knew the origins of the monument knew better. So, what's wrong with removing the white supremacy nature of the original by rededicating the monument with a new plaque and a new meaning? Representing all who died in the Battle of Liberty Place? The problem is that those who want it gone will not compromise and will not be satisfied until what they want is what is done. The monument had already been relocated as described by such "It was once prominently perched in a main shopping era, but was relegated to a spot at the end of the French Quarter when it was removed for street work in 1989.", which is also included as part of the article linked above. I find it somewhat humorous and ironic that the Mayor of New Orleans stated “The removal of these statues sends a clear and unequivocal message to the people of New Orleans and the nation: New Orleans celebrates our diversity, inclusion and tolerance,” Really? By excluding reminders of history that offends them? They display the limits of their inclusion and tolerance, with their actions.

It is simply dishonest... it was a misuse of history back then and it is today.


Now, the moment someone want to remove a statue honoring the common soldier, It will join you on the barricades... but this one deserve to be put in a museum and used as example of political propaganda.

The same article later quotes "Other monuments expected to be removed include a bronze statue of Gen. Robert E. Lee in a traffic circle, named Lee Circle, in the city’s central business district since 1884; an equestrian statue of P.G.T. Beauregard, a Confederate general; and a statue of Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy."

In summation, I'd say that wrong doings in the past have tried to be corrected, but not to the likeness of those that do not wish to honor a change in the meaning of the monument. That monument could have served as a memorial to all (both black and white) that fought and died during The Battle of Liberty Place, it doesn't have to honor a specific cause, but the lives of the people that gave the ultimate sacrifice. The previous message and meaning of that monument would have never been known by visitors of the monument since 1993. One takes from the monument the message it portrays, and since 1993 that message was not one of white supremacy.

[Stalin]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/04/24...monuments.html

foxnews

this explains all we need to know as to why you are angry