Morale and how to harness it.

[Poorlaggedman]

Not sure. As far as morale hits it's been done before but I don't know if anyone really understood how it functions except for the developers who came and went from the project in Resistance and Liberation. And it was hardly a serious effort by serious developers there.

Basically we're talking about tracking proximity of bullets and people and preferably a lot more work in animations to go along with it.

With the audio of bullets zipping by I understand that the player's proximity to a bullet miss is already tracked in some measure otherwise you wouldn't hear that. You also have local voice chat so presumably the game can track your relation to other players.

With animations... just in general, I strongly feel like you should be able to resume reloading from certain steps, reload while moving to some degree. Fumbling would help with any game in any time period and we know it's realistic especially under pressure.

The most basic effect on the player would be weapon sway from shaking and we already know there's that annoying effect when you first take aim. There seems to be already be the ability to blur your vision. Tunnel vision... some heartbeat sounds, heavier breathing

A carefully thought-out process and testing would help.

[Bivoj]

it most likely will at some point, but not in the foreseeable future.

That is really pity implementing individual soldier morale would really make a huge difference. Even very basic one.

[A. P. Hill]

That is really pity implementing individual soldier morale would really make a huge difference. Even very basic one.

Yep. Nothing would make the player base happier than to have the game programmed to take over a player's toon for morale degradation and cause him to run uncontrollably around the field while the player sits at his computer and yells at the screen to make the toon stop being stupid.

That said, I think implementing "individual soldier morale" could be a difficult thing. It's going to have to be a unit thing to have any actual programing abilities or lack thereof.

[Bivoj]

Yep. Nothing would make the player base happier than to have the game programmed to take over a player's toon for morale degradation and cause him to run uncontrollably around the field while the player sits at his computer and yells at the screen to make the toon stop being stupid.

That said, I think implementing "individual soldier morale" could be a difficult thing. It's going to have to be a unit thing to have any actual programing abilities or lack thereof.

I do not know what would make the "player base" happier, neither you do. I know, that I would like to play realistic game with realistic morale implemented. Maybe you dislike it and you prefer arcadish style of play with fearless avatar able to make suicide charges without harm. Different people, different tastes... But there is no need for this sarcastic and demagogic post. The "stupid toon" you seem to dislike is just another type of damage caused to your avatar, so:
"Nothing would make the player base happier than to have the game programmed to take over a player's toon for health degradation and switch to blackscreen while the player sits at his computer and yells at the screen to make the blackscreen stop being black."

[Poorlaggedman]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'running around uncontrollably.' When I was talking about running away, I'm talking about the player choosing to run away rather than face unrealistic stacked odds against him. The whole individual player charge thing that is so predominant. Without additional penalties, a lone wolf functionally operates as effectively as a guy working closely with others. In this case, you have the role players vs the Mel Gibsons out there.

I'm curious if you've played a lot of other shooters Hill or you're just a general Civil War gamer. It's pretty ugly out there as far as gameplay and getting players to work together closely is entirely unthinkable with 20 second reloads and without innovation.

I stopped playing most 'standard' shooters and decided to pick my battles. The morale effects were did in the last game I stuck with (for many, many years). They were mild but they were done for free by a college student who was not a very good programmer. He left an enormous amount of bugs that had to be cleaned up. This engine is far, far better. I just watched a developer video with several minutes dedicated to the update with the sound of metal from artillery moving in the air. As the player is shot at... shaking from heavy breathing and adrenaline increases. Tunnel vision begins to set in. The screen get's more blurry. In short it makes it harder to send a 1 ounce projectile and drop it on someone's lap when they are putting lead your way. If I read right, the developers are already planning to put some sort of 'limit' on charging in the next patch. There are a lot of gamier ways like that to get better gameplay. I do agree with limiting charging when a player's morale is not in good shape, which should require some sort of cohesive bayonet charge rather than a cluster**** you see now in every situation. Where in the annals of war did individuals run full sprint into enemy lines alone with a bayonet?

The general idea is, the more firepower, the more friendlies dying around you, the more hits you take, the worse the effects get. Therefore the more likely you are to decide to run away and take a different approach rather than play point-and-click shooting match with steady hands like you're on a rifle range. The lower you are to the ground, the less of an effect on you.

I'm not saying this was done the way I like it... but you get the general idea:

[Bivoj]

Honestly, I would prefer to see more than just graphical and sound effects (they may be the first "punishment").

I am thinking about something like this:
Morale health 100% - fresh soldier, no penalty
Morale health 75% - becoming disrupted - slower reloads, higher weapon swey
Morale health 50% - Shaken = moderate visual and sound effects (as seen in post above); possibility of foul reload; slower melee; decreased stamina consumption by sprint (to allow better retreat)
Morale health 25% - becoming broken = significant visual and sound effects (black-and-white; blurry; loud heartbeat); very slow reloads with high probability of foul; no melee but block allowed
Morale health 0% - Rout = auto-surrender when more enemy than friendly within close proximity; else auto-retreat in direction to spawn; stop at certain point and wait for recovery to 26%

At 0% of morale heath, the punishment is similar to 0% physical death - you have to wait for respawn or morale recovery. The latter does not consume the "ticket".

So, when you act as lone wolf, you very likely experience adversary morale effects. When you act as a soldier in close order unit (with good leadership, ordering retreat in proper time) or proper skirmisher (avoiding close contact with close order units), you do not experience much of the effects. And that is the desired result - historical behaviour being more efficient to lonewolf ramboing in realistic manner.

[R21]

Resistance and liberation became a bit of a mess tbh, the initial releases were really good (for what they were) but I don't think i've ever seen such a bitchy community in my entire life.

Like you say, amateurs working for free + the limitations of the engine they were using stonewalled them.

I've been playing Rising storm 2 and I have to say, I just find the suppression effects really annoying, i.e. 'pop head up from window get shot at, vision blurred, get to cover' rinse and repeat. Now, this could be completely different with WOR as there aren't any automatic Weapons but it's just really annoying in RS2 (either being shot at or bombarded by arty and your screen blurred for ages) it just seems like a really formulaic approach, like 'You're suppressed now, that means you have to take cover!'

I kind of like what i've seen in WOR so far with the Shell effects, like a momentary blur when one lands, it seems like enough (and obviously they can expand on this) i'm just not sure the best way to go about it as an entire system. I think i've suggested having teams more susceptible to suppression effects and having it tied to a teams overall 'Morale' which could be a good way to go (This'd really help in getting teams moving as they wouldn't want their teams morale to drop) and could cause some really intense fighting.

[Poorlaggedman]

Resistance and Liberation wasn't a mess because of morale. The morale was softcore. It was a mess because of a dead-end game franchise (HL2) and high desertion among developers. If anyone could have imagined it'd be 2017 and HL3 wasn't out, nobody would have believed it. They killed all the promising mod communities with their betrayal.

The shell effects are way too standardized and predictable. GOOD morale effects would vary and not just be a reaction to each shot or shell.

I have not played RS. Actually, I take that back. I did play a free weekend years ago. I didn't like it. I don't recall any sort of morale. There's a big difference between 'morale' and 'suppression'. As in the video in this thread about the two games.... some games have a quick snapping effect where it distorts your vision for a moment. I call that 'suppression.' It only happens the moments the bullet is coming by. The effects are often exaggerated and standardized. Like WoR's artillery effects. The key is to achieve a longer effect that builds up and recovers. If you're alone getting shot at every 25 seconds by two guys then eventually you're going to accumulate enough to start really noticing it. You aren't going to be all that successful sitting there and taking it forever. You should always feel a little effect but as you stray from teammates or you take a lot of firepower it should really start to heat up. The players should be motivated to counteract these effects and therefore 'behave' like the real combatants generally behaved.

Individual morale is the most realistic path to take as well. Where does a rout start? Was an interesting article I read. Obviously if youre in a line of battle and someone is firing into your flank those men on the flank are probably going to start caving first rather than just wait for their turn to get shot through the thighs.
IMG_2233.jpg

Team morale just sounds like an ambiguous scoring metric that nobody will ever understand and just accept it when it happens. Much like we have in the current version of WoR where it starts off as "Battle ready" moves to "Engaged" and whatever else after. With individual morale there is a real path the players can pursue themselves to change it and not just complain to their teammates and bemoan the downfall of the team.

My goal is not some dumb Real time strategy style system where you get 'bonuses' from being near an officer or some BS. I want the 'officer' or the player acting in that role to serve a real purpose when he tries to get people to do certain stuff. He should be closing gaps because it helps the players by helping their effectiveness not just role playing. I see a ton of annoying role playing right now and I feel like a kid playing with a toy rather than a competitor trying to win over other humans. I'm an enormous civil war buff. I'm actually working the deputy director of a major battlefield park right now to start a non profit organization there in October. And yet I'm getting bored and frustrated in this game as it stands standing alongside people trying to reenact. It's just us hardcores right now but it's going to change. If people come for Civil War combat and find something that doesn't deliver, if they come and find a bunch of hardcores reenacting in a game that should be competitive, there will be disappointment and when there's disappointment the trolling will eat at the community wave after wave.

[R21]

Resistance and Liberation wasn't a mess because of morale. The morale was softcore. It was a mess because of a dead-end game franchise (HL2) and high desertion among developers. If anyone could have imagined it'd be 2017 and HL3 wasn't out, nobody would have believed it. They killed all the promising mod communities with their betrayal.

Yeh, I think they took the HL2 Engine as far as it could go given what they were trying to do, just wasn't meant for massive outdoor stuff.

Team morale just sounds like an ambiguous scoring metric that nobody will ever understand and just accept it when it happens. Much like we have in the current version of WoR where it starts off as "Battle ready" moves to "Engaged" and whatever else after. With individual morale there is a real path the players can pursue themselves to change it and not just complain to their teammates and bemoan the downfall of the team.

What I mean by team morale: The more casualties a team is taking/Further they're being pushed back the lower their overall Morale which would then effect Players individual Morale.

In Gameplay terms I think this would help with the flow of Battles (Getting pushed back and having negative effects would make people either Rally or accept they'd lost) sort of speeding things up a bit and not having rounds ending with 2-3 people Camping in some unknown location.

My goal is not some dumb Real time strategy style system where you get 'bonuses' from being near an officer or some BS. I want the 'officer' or the player acting in that role to serve a real purpose when he tries to get people to do certain stuff. He should be closing gaps because it helps the players by helping their effectiveness not just role playing. I see a ton of annoying role playing right now and I feel like a kid playing with a toy rather than a competitor trying to win over other humans. I'm an enormous civil war buff. I'm actually working the deputy director of a major battlefield park right now to start a non profit organization there in October. And yet I'm getting bored and frustrated in this game as it stands standing alongside people trying to reenact. It's just us hardcores right now but it's going to change. If people come for Civil War combat and find something that doesn't deliver, if they come and find a bunch of hardcores reenacting in a game that should be competitive, there will be disappointment and when there's disappointment the trolling will eat at the community wave after wave.

Completely agree with you, imo, the roleplay stuff can deter actual Gameplay. I have no problem with it, but when people start trying to force it on Public play it gets a bit annoying. Gameplay before accuracy/RP every time.

[Shabahh]

I am in total agreement of having some sort of individual morale system in place as OP suggested, and not as just options. Yeah not having restrictions sound nice and all, but even this game needed officer limitations. In the end, gamers are practical and don't like losing.