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Thread: been awhile since i studied the civil war regarding melee deaths

  1. #1

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    been awhile since i studied the civil war regarding melee deaths

    been doing alot of reading lately on the civil been yrs since i have been out of school and wondering whey in this game 3/4 of the deaths come from stabbie stabbie ie bayonet kills when in real life about 3-5% max were melee kills it seems all people want to do is charge and bayonet people
    i have seen people just run and not even shoot and straight at people and kill them that doesnt happen in real life and dont say they need to shoot i have seen first hand it always very hard to hit people moving either lag or what ever just wondering are the deve going tone down melee damage cause it really seems it is out of hand most rather use melee than fire the gun

    really would like thought of people playing the game alot instead of the forum warriors no offense but unless you played in the last month and 1/2 you dont know about the game just looking for some feed back and please dont say people need to learn to shoot cause i know a good group who can shoot and the melee still happens
    thanks

  2. #2
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    Wounds caused by bayonets or other melee weapons were usually fatal and therefore counted among the statistics as a death, not a wound. There are countless first-hand accounts of men moving into melee through primary sources - letters, diaries and the such. That's not to say that it was a regular occurrence though and certainly would have never accounted for 75% of all deaths as you suggest is happening here. I dispute your suggestion and would defer to the developers and those who participate in the weekend events to make further comment. This is an Alpha and the game is subject to further improvement; melee is on the agenda to be revamped at a time deemed appropriate by CFG.
    Captain Jim J. Digby, 8th Virginia Regiment, Company 'H'

  3. #3

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    You see a massive amount of charging done on the skirmish map.

    Quote from the book: Military Memoirs of a Confederate

    "That indeed is the case in nearly all battles since long-range guns have come into use. It is rare that hostile lines get so near together, and are so exposed to each other's view, that men can select their targets. When this does occur, some decisive result is apt to be reached quickly. Fighting rarely consists now in marching directly upon one's enemy and shooting them down at close range. The idea is now a different one. It rather consists in making it rain projectiles all over the enemy's position. As far as possible, while so engaged, one seeks cover from the enemy's fire in return.

    But the party taking the offensive must necessarily make some advances. The best advance is around the enemy's flank. Where one meets less fire and becomes opposed by smaller numbers"

    By Edward Alexander Porter

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    It is the nature of how the skirmish battles are set up and the fact it is a game. People charge who wouldn't really charge because it is almost certain death for most of the people charging. In a game like WoR you come back to life after a few minutes. Death is an inconvenience. Because of the time limits, ticket system, and weapon effectiveness a charge is the best method of achieving victory.

    But reality was that the bayonet was a "morale" weapon. If an attacking line actually got close enough to use it the defender usually considered the fight lost and promptly ran away. They considering the fact that the attacker was able to hold rank and cross under fire far enough to make contact sufficient proof they should win. First person accounts tend to be embellished and not to be overly trusted.

    Here are some solid statistics from Nosworthy's book:

    Cause of death reported by the AoP's surgeon McParlin for the Battle of the Wilderness:
    Shell: 231, Shot: 6, Bullet: 7,046, Bayonet: 4, Sword: 2

    Spotsylvania where you would expect much higher casualties due to the Mule Shoe:
    Shell: 712, Shot: 37, Bullet: 8,218, Bayonet: 14, Sword: 1.

    As you can see the Bayonet was rarely used to kill people with.

    As Nosworthy goes on to say:

    There is considerable difference between a bayonet fight (which is what we do) and a bayonet charge. "A bayonet charge, on the other had, is a formal, predefined tactic whereby infantryman "charge bayonets," that is, extend their muskets in front of them and rush in upon the enemy, threatening to "run in" whoever contemplates standing up to them."

    "If the goal was to overpower the enemy only after a ferocious and bloody bayonet fight, then repeat the bayonet indeed proved to be a useless appendage during the Civil War."

    "the purpose of any weapon system is to achieve the desired tactical objective, the discomfiture of the enemy, rather than simply to impose how the conflict will be resolved. In other words, if we measure the bayonet's role by what it actually achieved during combat, then we are forced to conclude that it indeed proved to be an invaluable tool during many Civil War engagements."
    Lightfoot

  5. #5

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    Right now in early alpha access, and with limited numbers allowed on severs, and to some degree player's lack of mortality fear, there will be an inordinate amount of ahistorical melee. As player numbers increase and the initial shine of meeting the enemy eyeball to eyeball wears off I think the amount of melee may well subside.

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    lightfoot those the same statistics that i have been reading in many articles and yes the bayonet charge is a morale thing in this game it isnt the charges its the killing it just seems eveyone wants to stab people or something is off either running is to fast reloads to slow but maybe as ap says just isnt enought players but when and if we get 200 wont that make it 200 stabbing game is so much fun just wish the rifle was more useful just seems to really inaccurate after about 50 yards rarely do you get hit at over 100 yards and that seems off too

    wish we could see our shots more so we could know what we are doing thanks for the answers just seems stabbie stabbie as i call it is just way to much

  7. #7
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    I've already answered regarding melee in other theads.

    We have yet to implement any line/group mechanics or even melee mechanics to the game.

    The first step to limiting charging will be done in the next update where we are heavily limiting non rifle wielding classes (no more gunslinging).

    We are also doing away with ticket counts and introduce overall morale instead (easier to buff/nerf in the future - hint hint).

    - Trusty

  8. #8

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    thanks for the answer trusty
    just be careful of how u limit the classes cause if it first come then what happens if or own officers cant get in as officers that wont be fair to them maybe u can detail how you will solve that in another post when you get time
    and the getting rid of the tickets is great news and so is the morale
    also if you are going to limit pistols will you also limit the sharps rifle the union gets or will the south get them also because the fire rate is about double the muzzleloaders

  9. #9
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sal_tuskin View Post
    thanks for the answer trusty
    just be careful of how u limit the classes cause if it first come then what happens if or own officers cant get in as officers that wont be fair to them maybe u can detail how you will solve that in another post when you get time
    and the getting rid of the tickets is great news and so is the morale
    also if you are going to limit pistols will you also limit the sharps rifle the union gets or will the south get them also because the fire rate is about double the muzzleloaders
    We have no intentions in regards to making sure the firepower/tech is identical on the two sides - it wasn't in real life either.

    Limited class will be a first come first served sort of thing. If you wish to control who gets the the classes you will have to host your own server with a password when that option becomes available.

    - Trusty

  10. #10

    USA General of the Army

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    I thought the limiting of "classes" were to be handled via company tool position?

    If you're a captain via company tool, then the player has options as to captain varieties. If you're a private via company tool you are likewise limited to private rank only.

    Etcetera down through the ranks.

    Did I not read something right?

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