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Thread: Shape up ! Saturday events !

  1. #21
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    Yes, five years army. I can't say I saw the cream rising to the top there either.

    And you're misunderstanding altogether. There will never, ever, ever be a game where a class which is available to any random player will have respect simply because of that. Even in Battefield, the one 'commander' slot where you could do a lot of unique things was not revered because, once again, totally random player who gets that class. Functionally the class is just a different set of weapons and you can draw lines on the ground. That is it. 3D voice offers a lot of assistance for people trying to organize a team but whether those people are in the officer classes or not is a totally random factor. Gamers are gamers. The trolling is going to get a lot worse, the leadership is going to get a lot worse. Quite frankly it isn't very good now. I'm very worried about the idea of people spawning off a color bearer. Red flags all over because it's absolutely prime material for a troll and it's presumably another randomly achieved class.
    We have a few mechanics thought out to prevent trolling (stray too far away from the main body of your regiment and you will get a desertion warning and eventually die and have the flag bearer role pass to another regiment member). These will most likely not be included in the first iteration of flag bearer spawning but is something we plan to feature eventually to counter trolling.

    - Trusty

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    We have a few mechanics thought out to prevent trolling (stray too far away from the main body of your regiment and you will get a desertion warning and eventually die and have the flag bearer role pass to another regiment member). These will most likely not be included in the first iteration of flag bearer spawning but is something we plan to feature eventually to counter trolling.
    While such rules are in some point efficient, I am personally against these arbitrary "gamey" solutions. Hopefully you will be able to solve most of the issues by rather "realistic" measures.

  3. #23
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivoj View Post
    While such rules are in some point efficient, I am personally against these arbitrary "gamey" solutions. Hopefully you will be able to solve most of the issues by rather "realistic" measures.
    Please explain why you don't think running away from your regiment and the battle at hand equals a desertion like action.

    - Trusty

  4. #24

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    He is implying having physical admins in server...

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    Firing by volley is almost useless since firepower means nothing if you don't have a target.
    Firing by volley is useless even if you can see the target. Far more efficient is fire at will, because it increases the rate of fire and accuracy of the whole unit. There is no point in waiting for an order and delaying your shot (i.e. fire by volley means less discharges in a given timeframe) = lower RoF; also, there is no point in shooting exactly at the time when order comes, when you do not aim properly = worse accuracy. When you can fire at your will, you fire at your best pace (RoF) and when you have the most confidence in your shot (accuracy).

    So, why did they introduced volleys in the age of blackpowder? Again - it is about (individual soldier) morale. The volley caused shock to enemy unit, because quite a lot of soldiers fell dead or wounded in very short time by one mighty blow. Especially efficient when properly timed against enemy charge to stop it and force surviving enemy soldiers to fall back (which was completely irational - after close range discharge, the defenders had no ability to reload and fire again). Fire-by-platoon was creating a 'persistent fire' situation, discouraging enemy to advance closer or even charge, something like blackpowder machinegun. But none of these is relevant in the game. Only perfect accuracy and best RoF matter and you achieve both by fire at will better.

    So again: Without individual soldier morale, volleys or any orchestrating of firepower is just useless. Just for parade ground, not for competitive play. In this game fire-at-will beats fire by volley or fire by platoon.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    Please explain why you don't think running away from your regiment and the battle at hand equals a desertion like action.
    Maybe I was too hurry in this statement, so I have to apologize. Actually, I am calling for similar solution - surrender when morale goes down or even actual desertion of the lone soldier (he has no superior to watch - he can flee the battle), which leads to very same ingame effects. I have just issue, that some invisible officer shoots you dead out of the blind...


    I am sorry for doublepost - I forgot, that you dislike it very much here. Could you, please, merge the two posts?

  7. #27
    Well... I find in real-life examples as well as in the game the smoke is a huge factor. The first volley can be devastating with a clear field of fire. Firing at all once can maximize that in the game as well. Indeed without another metric to gauge the effect of bullets other than hit/miss there is no reason to fire without a clear shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    We have a few mechanics thought out to prevent trolling (stray too far away from the main body of your regiment and you will get a desertion warning and eventually die and have the flag bearer role pass to another regiment member). These will most likely not be included in the first iteration of flag bearer spawning but is something we plan to feature eventually to counter trolling.

    - Trusty
    I definitely don't agree with the desertion thing. I mean... it'd be a cool experiment. But assuming people are 'behaving' it can be a bit gamey. What if you want to send a messenger? Or what if you are coordinating the efforts between 'main bodies.' In the last game I played with 3d voice chat in events I would sometimes post pickets in certain locations and literally go and check on them every once and a while. That's a way over-looked strategy as it allowed me to react faster to new developments and gave me a trigger warning when the enemy was moving somewhere in force during an event.

    Mobile spawns are great to have but I feel like the flag could serve a more practical purpose closer to its real-life use than spawning players in. It's going to be a game of sprinting zig-zagging with the flag until you get across the bridge so we can keep a spawn there sort of thing.

  8. #28
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    Well... I find in real-life examples as well as in the game the smoke is a huge factor. The first volley can be devastating with a clear field of fire. Firing at all once can maximize that in the game as well. Indeed without another metric to gauge the effect of bullets other than hit/miss there is no reason to fire without a clear shot.


    I definitely don't agree with the desertion thing. I mean... it'd be a cool experiment. But assuming people are 'behaving' it can be a bit gamey. What if you want to send a messenger? Or what if you are coordinating the efforts between 'main bodies.' In the last game I played with 3d voice chat in events I would sometimes post pickets in certain locations and literally go and check on them every once and a while. That's a way over-looked strategy as it allowed me to react faster to new developments and gave me a trigger warning when the enemy was moving somewhere in force during an event.

    Mobile spawns are great to have but I feel like the flag could serve a more practical purpose closer to its real-life use than spawning players in. It's going to be a game of sprinting zig-zagging with the flag until you get across the bridge so we can keep a spawn there sort of thing.
    Don't use your flag bearer as a messenger. I'm talking only in relation to flag bearers and not everyone.

    - Trusty

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivoj View Post
    Firing by volley is useless even if you can see the target. Far more efficient is fire at will, because it increases the rate of fire and accuracy of the whole unit. There is no point in waiting for an order and delaying your shot (i.e. fire by volley means less discharges in a given timeframe) = lower RoF; also, there is no point in shooting exactly at the time when order comes, when you do not aim properly = worse accuracy. When you can fire at your will, you fire at your best pace (RoF) and when you have the most confidence in your shot (accuracy).
    I have to disagree. I personally think that these orders for firing are very effective because the officer can controll the volley. In ,,Fire at will'' or ,,Open Fire''. If you get charged for example you could have it that everybody is reloading or do something. You as a officer can controll it. Yeah ,,Fire by company'' isn't in some cases effective but there are also the commands: ,,Fire by Rank/File'' You can get your enemys under constand firing and you still have the controll over the shots. We in our company also made a training for officers, that they know what they have to say and espacially when. We trained our officers, that they will wait a bit to give his soldiers some time to aim. It is really useless if you give the command ,,Fire'' right behind ,,Aim''.

    But i agree that individual soldier morale is a good thing.

    Greetings from Germany
    Max Petersen

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    Don't use your flag bearer as a messenger. I'm talking only in relation to flag bearers and not everyone.
    The only issue I can see is, that if the flag bearer is the only survivor or manages to retreat when things go wrong, he will be executed...

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