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Thread: Morale again

  1. #1

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    Morale again

    I have tried the current implementation of morale yesterday and hereby some comments/ideas:

    If I get it right, the individual morale effects are multiplied by the state of "whole unit morale" (i.e. the amount of remaining "tickets"). When the side is at "Getting casualties" or even at "Breaking" status, the ingame effects occur quickly and the recovery is slow. What I have experienced at "Breaking" status (tickets almost depleted) was actually very good - I was stabbed by bayonet (and I stabbed back in the same time) and the screen completely black-out. I thought I was killed, but the visuals slowly started to get normal (less and less blurry), so I managed to survive, but with some kind of "morale" punishment. Even after a while, the gun sway was increased and I believe the stamina was low as well. Even as-is works fine, but I would suggest to add some sound effects as well (deafness, while hearing own heartbeat for example). Also, I hope we will see autosurrender while suffering low-morale AND close to superior numbers of enemy soldiers.

    What is more important - the effect of being close to friendly soldiers or flag has quite insignificant effect (if any). The severe morale punishments described should be applied to lone-wolfs even at "engaged" status, while being close to friendly soldiers and especially flag bearer should increase the individual morale recovery faster even at "breaking" status.


    Anyway, the morale system is on the right track. So, devs, please, keep on

    Btw. the two-stab melee is huge improvement!

  2. #2
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivoj View Post
    I have tried the current implementation of morale yesterday and hereby some comments/ideas:

    If I get it right, the individual morale effects are multiplied by the state of "whole unit morale" (i.e. the amount of remaining "tickets"). When the side is at "Getting casualties" or even at "Breaking" status, the ingame effects occur quickly and the recovery is slow. What I have experienced at "Breaking" status (tickets almost depleted) was actually very good - I was stabbed by bayonet (and I stabbed back in the same time) and the screen completely black-out. I thought I was killed, but the visuals slowly started to get normal (less and less blurry), so I managed to survive, but with some kind of "morale" punishment. Even after a while, the gun sway was increased and I believe the stamina was low as well. Even as-is works fine, but I would suggest to add some sound effects as well (deafness, while hearing own heartbeat for example). Also, I hope we will see autosurrender while suffering low-morale AND close to superior numbers of enemy soldiers.

    What is more important - the effect of being close to friendly soldiers or flag has quite insignificant effect (if any). The severe morale punishments described should be applied to lone-wolfs even at "engaged" status, while being close to friendly soldiers and especially flag bearer should increase the individual morale recovery faster even at "breaking" status.


    Anyway, the morale system is on the right track. So, devs, please, keep on

    Btw. the two-stab melee is huge improvement!
    Thank you for the feedback.

    The morale system has nothing to do with the formation buff (the effects applied to teammembers in a close group).

    100% Morale = Battle Ready
    75% Morale = Engaged
    50% Morale = Taking Losses
    25% Morale = Breaking

    Morale is decreased when taking casualties (the old ticket based system). The different states have no impacts on any effects applied.

    - Trusty

  3. #3

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    So, it was coincidence, that I suffered severe morale effects while our ticket state was "breaking"... But than - I am suggesting to actually implement such dependency. I believe it would not be difficult to have it as a multiplier - the lower the tickets, the more severe individual morale effects and the slower the rate of recovery.

    And do I understand it right, that dying alone consumes more tickets, while dying in close formation less tickets?

  4. #4
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivoj View Post
    So, it was coincidence, that I suffered severe morale effects while our ticket state was "breaking"... But than - I am suggesting to actually implement such dependency. I believe it would not be difficult to have it as a multiplier - the lower the tickets, the more severe individual morale effects and the slower the rate of recovery.

    And do I understand it right, that dying alone consumes more tickets, while dying in close formation less tickets?
    Dying alone will take a heavier toll on the morale amount of your team eventually.

    The formation buff also lessens your supression recovery time.

    We're not overly keen on implementing a penalty for the, effectively, losing team (team with the least morale left and thus closest to losing the match).

    - Trusty

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    Dying alone will take a heavier toll on the morale amount of your team eventually.

    The formation buff also lessens your supression recovery time.

    We're not overly keen on implementing a penalty for the, effectively, losing team (team with the least morale left and thus closest to losing the match).

    - Trusty
    I'm not sure about the first rule. Lone wolfs already care less about the team, or other player's interests. It's a small step to think that they'd be less interested in what morale is lost if they die. It feels like you're penalizing those members who do play as a team for the selfish play style of someone else, and on which they can have no influence other than begging them to play as a team.

    I know I'm sort of looking at it from the worst side of humanity but these ARE Gamers and this IS the internet after all. "I play how I want to play", "I don't care about your ticktets I play how I want" comes to mind.

    How about, if you die alone your respawn timer is much longer. That way the person who drifted off alone is penalized solely. And as an added benefit they'll have overall less time on their hands to lose tickets (by dying) since they're dead for longer.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    Dying alone will take a heavier toll on the morale amount of your team eventually.

    The formation buff also lessens your supression recovery time.

    We're not overly keen on implementing a penalty for the, effectively, losing team (team with the least morale left and thus closest to losing the match).

    - Trusty
    I'm not sure about the first rule. Lone wolfs already care less about the team, or other player's interests. It's a small step to think that they'd be less interested in what morale is lost if they die. It feels like you're penalizing those members who do play as a team for the selfish play style of someone else, and on which they can have no influence other than begging them to play as a team.

    I know I'm sort of looking at it from the worst side of humanity but these ARE Gamers and this IS the internet after all. "I play how I want to play", "I don't care about your ticktets I play how I want" comes to mind.

    How about, if you die alone your respawn timer is much longer. That way the person who drifted off alone is penalized solely. And as an added benefit they'll have overall less time on their hands to lose tickets (by dying) since they're dead for longer.

  7. #7
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDewitt View Post
    I'm not sure about the first rule. Lone wolfs already care less about the team, or other player's interests. It's a small step to think that they'd be less interested in what morale is lost if they die. It feels like you're penalizing those members who do play as a team for the selfish play style of someone else, and on which they can have no influence other than begging them to play as a team.

    I know I'm sort of looking at it from the worst side of humanity but these ARE Gamers and this IS the internet after all. "I play how I want to play", "I don't care about your ticktets I play how I want" comes to mind.

    How about, if you die alone your respawn timer is much longer. That way the person who drifted off alone is penalized solely. And as an added benefit they'll have overall less time on their hands to lose tickets (by dying) since they're dead for longer.
    We realize a percentage of lone wolf'ers will care less for the teams chances at winning than the majority of players. This is why individual effects will be worked on throughout the alpha when out of line (away from your team - out of formation buff).


    The flag bearer spawn system (once implemented) will mean quite a bit longer base spawn wave time (compared to now) and introduce personal reinforcement tickets for each player to be spent on reinforcing the regiment at the flag. This cost will be upped for lone wolfs (dying without the formation buff) meaning they'll soon have to wait longer having to respawn, and at the same time respawn at the base (as they will run out of personal reinforcement tickets faster than anyone else).

    We believe a better chance of winning the match as well as consequences of personal choices (should I lone wolf?) need to be present in order to have the best possible effect.

    - Trusty

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    Dying alone will take a heavier toll on the morale amount of your team eventually.
    We're not overly keen on implementing a penalty for the, effectively, losing team (team with the least morale left and thus closest to losing the match).
    Pity, it goes against the flavour related with the ticket status "names". It would be nice if they represent actual "morale" of the whole unit punishing whole players by more severe individual morale effects and slower morale recovery rate. And it would be more "realistic" (soldiers in the unit, that suffered severe casualties are more likely to retire/retreat/rout)
    I understand your concern not to harm gameplay - not to punish the losers even more, but on the other hand - it may make the ticket count more significant gameplay feature and can help to balance map. Now it is all-or-nothing and raising/lowering the ticket amount for each side has limited effect. Imagine Burnside Bridge where CSA is defending well, but losing % of tickets faster than USA. If CSA manages to keep at least some tickets till the end of the map - nothing happens. But when the ticket status affects also individual morale, the USA charges may be more successful after softening the CSA defence.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDewitt View Post
    I'm not sure about the first rule. Lone wolfs already care less about the team, or other player's interests. It's a small step to think that they'd be less interested in what morale is lost if they die. It feels like you're penalizing those members who do play as a team for the selfish play style of someone else, and on which they can have no influence other than begging them to play as a team.

    I know I'm sort of looking at it from the worst side of humanity but these ARE Gamers and this IS the internet after all. "I play how I want to play", "I don't care about your ticktets I play how I want" comes to mind.
    I believe you are afraid too much:
    1) If your side is having poorer players, you will more likely lose the round. When lonewolfing punishes whole side, lonewolfe = poor player.
    2) Majority of players are willing to win (and they are not willing to cause defeat) and they adjust their behaviour accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDewitt View Post
    How about, if you die alone your respawn timer is much longer. That way the person who drifted off alone is penalized solely. And as an added benefit they'll have overall less time on their hands to lose tickets (by dying) since they're dead for longer.
    I like that one! Definitely there should be individual punishment for lonewolfs as well. I am suggesting worse individual morale effects, but longer respawn time is also valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    We believe a better chance of winning the match as well as consequences of personal choices (should I lone wolf?) need to be present in order to have the best possible effect.
    I am really happy to read this!
    +1 to the idea
    Last edited by Bivoj; 10-08-2017 at 07:46 PM.

  9. #9
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivoj View Post

    I like that one! Definitely there should be individual punishment for lonewolfs as well. I am suggesting worse individual morale effects, but longer respawn time is also valid.
    There already is worse individual suppression effects. "Morale effects" is not a thing.

    - Trusty

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    There already is worse individual suppression effects. "Morale effects" is not a thing.

    - Trusty
    I know you are already starting with implementation of these features and I am great fan of this, I am not telling you are not.

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