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Thread: State of Affairs as of 10/30/17

  1. #1

    USA General of the Army

    John Cooley's Avatar
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    State of Affairs as of 10/30/17

    Granted this is Alpha, and Early Alpha at that.
    We completely understand that the Purpose is focused on Testing Game Mechanics and possible Features.
    Further, Bug Reports and Testing the product for Play-ability and Launch Readiness are chiefly the purview of BETA Testing.
    That being said ... a few issues need to be addressed.

    Recent Changes have NOT been successful in guiding the Testing toward Line Battle Mechanics, as intended.
    - The inability to scout or deploy skirmishers, combined with the ever present sniping by sharps rifles, has resulted in the almost exclusive use of one tactic ... hunker down and prepare for Custer's Last Stand.
    This could be fought as a Line Battle but adjustments to Spawn points and out of Bounds limits has made bunching together in a square the only way to keep a good eye out.
    - Then there is the 4X Ticket Loss mechanic.
    It has had the intended effect of getting everyone to stay grouped but ...
    Having a group as small as 6 scouts means that after the death of the first guy the remaining 5 now cause the massive Ticket Loss that can not be absorbed. Scouting Parties need to be large and unwieldy. 3 Man skirm groups are no longer possible and Watching the Flank now falls to the main Line.
    This Ticket Loss is greatly felt when the enemy is sniping reinforcements of a few men, a PUG Rambo keeps charging instead of playing as a Team and if the Defender doesn't focus an undue amount of attention on falling back and staying shoulder to shoulder.
    I say UNDUE Attention because it is one thing to Fill In for a lost man but if ... and this has happened to me several times ... you are anchoring the end of the line and the two guys to your left get killed just before you, during a volley, then you are shot ... you are considered Out of Formation. There ought to be a small window where the chance to Cover Down is available.

    The effect of these Recent Adjustments has resulted in several sweeping changes. It is possible that this is intentional but we wish to Note them here for Informational purposes ...
    - We NEVER see a map timer run out. 10 minute battles To The Death are the new norm.
    - The Ticket Disparity now has the Rebels losing almost every engagement when before we lost very few. Not a complaint but rather an observation of how much the Game Changes are having an effect.
    - Win Parameters are now overly skewed to the Union side. The best example from this weekend was a Skirm in which the Yanks NEVER took the Point, not even once. The Final Death Toll was 87 Yanks dead to 38 Rebs. The Timer only ran for 8 minutes ... and we LOST.
    - The Weekend Events used to be composed of 4 Events consisting of approximately 3 skirmishes each of which the Rebels won all but 1 or 2 of these 12 to 15 ... on a bad day.
    Now, we play at least 25 Skirms and are lucky to win 1 all weekend.
    We now have a bit more empathy for the Pain of our Union Foes but losing when you dominate a battle is not right.

    This brings me to our Final Point ...
    The Confederate Leadership is finding it increasingly difficult to convince our Troops to attend anything except Drills.
    Nobody has a problem with Losing due to our own Mistakes or Miscalculations but it is hard to motivate a man to spend his few free hours a week Testing a game that makes no sense.
    Again, this IS Early Alpha and we are testing mechanics but no testing can be done without Players.
    We aren't asking for Favoritism or an Easy Ride ... you don't build muscle, courage or camaraderie by having Victories handed to you. However, it is not fun for anyone to feel they are wasting their hard earned Time on being a Pop-up Target with zero chance to win because the battle cry has been changed from Deo Vindice to Deus Ex Machina.

    Thank you for your Time and Attention in reading this long Post.
    We greatly appreciate your efforts and will always support and test the game and its Developers.
    Our Desire is to help bring this game to Fruition and, although it may be unpopular to some, we can not AND SHOULD NOT be yet another Member of The WoR Forum Echo Chamber.
    Last edited by John Cooley; 10-30-2017 at 04:20 PM.
    My Great Great Grandfather, Isaac MacDonal Cooley, served as a Pathfinder Cavalry Scout
    in the 1st Arkansas Cavalry Regiment (Dobbin's) Company K
    My Avatar flies his Unit Guidon to Honor his Service.
    My Credo is a simple one ... Unit before Self with Honor above ALL else.

  2. #2

    CSA Captain


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    1) the formation

    As stated above, it is now quite detrimental to ones country's cause to deploy skirmishers or scouts. They will invariably be out of line and make any sustained casualties very problematic. This game is meant to be played with large player counts. Every design decision made is with the idea in mind that there will be enough players present to form a basic line (even if its a skirmish line). This is an interesting thought as there are very few games out there which do this. At the same time though you have to ask yourself: what if there aren't that many players online? Are you certain the number of players online at any given time will be sufficient to a) trigger the required mechanics for effective play and b) avoid triggering the penalties for not being able to meet the minimums?

    Extended from this game philosophy comes the question: how is the player experience when player count is low?

    2) the melee system
    I can't say I'm a big fan of it. Not because of the harshness but because of the futility of fighting on after receiving a hit. Right now, if you do manage to survive getting hit first it feels (to me at least) it's better to just respawn and start with a fresh character. Being wounded is just too troublesome during the fight. I currently have no opinions on how to fix this without losing realism so I'll suffice with just stating the player experience I have: I'd rather just die and respawn than go on wounded since I can be a more effective fighter even with the hiatus of respawning and rejoining the line.

  3. #3
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Cooley View Post


    - Win Parameters are now overly skewed to the Union side. The best example from this weekend was a Skirm in which the Yanks NEVER took the Point, not even once. The Final Death Toll was 87 Yanks dead to 38 Rebs. The Timer only ran for 8 minutes ... and we LOST.
    Thank you for the feedback.

    The system is still in its early phase and there are even other core mechanics missing from the game that work in relation to it (like the flag bearer system which will help to make lines somewhat more resilient to enemy fire).

    While a round timer will prevent the union from sitting back so will an area to defend for the csa. The rounds may be on the short side now but they were far too often decided on time previously.

    I will point out that the above example might seem wrong at first glance. A 2:1 loss ratio when attacking is not unheard of in real life though. The casualty screen also doesn't show how many of the 38 deaths were out of line deaths.

    Technically, all CSA deaths could be out of line deaths while all union deaths were in formation.

    That would equal to a morale loss of 87 for the union & 152 for the csa.



    I'll wait with posting more of my thoughts until more alpha testers have given theirs.

    - Trusty

  4. #4

    USA General of the Army

    John Cooley's Avatar
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    Appreciate the speedy reply and want to AGAIN point out to our Intrepid Testers that this IS Alpha Testing of Mechanics and NOT a playable game model.
    Things will change constantly to test different mechanics and ideas so that we get the right balance for the Final Product.
    Constructive criticism is encouraged but Flaming a game that is incomplete helps nobody.

    Agree or Disagree ...
    We want and need Community input to get to the game we all yearn for so feel free to chime in with your thoughts and ideas.
    My Great Great Grandfather, Isaac MacDonal Cooley, served as a Pathfinder Cavalry Scout
    in the 1st Arkansas Cavalry Regiment (Dobbin's) Company K
    My Avatar flies his Unit Guidon to Honor his Service.
    My Credo is a simple one ... Unit before Self with Honor above ALL else.

  5. #5
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    Leifr's Avatar
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    I look forward to being able to spawn on, and pick up, the regimental flags. I think it will push the fighting in the proper direction and give them some resilience that is currently missing.
    Captain Jim J. Digby, 8th Virginia Regiment, Company 'H'

  6. #6

    CSA Major


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    i love the new melee mechanics well done trusty more true to life, but as cooley was saying playing the csa the cards seem to be stacked against the csa right now maybe increase the morale of the csa but 1/3 and see what happens
    to many fights feel like custers last stand right now cause u lose to many tickets if out of line and a lot of new players dont know that and cost us lots of morale

    i still feel the guns sway to much maybe you can help with that as someone who shots muskets maybe 10 times a yr i can truely tell you they dont sway that much but you are doing good on the game keep it up maybe help the csa with some more morale at the start of the map and see how that works

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by john cooley View Post
    granted this is alpha, and early alpha at that.
    We completely understand that the purpose is focused on testing game mechanics and possible features.
    Further, bug reports and testing the product for play-ability and launch readiness are chiefly the purview of beta testing.
    That being said ... A few issues need to be addressed.

    Recent changes have not been successful in guiding the testing toward line battle mechanics, as intended.
    - the inability to scout or deploy skirmishers, combined with the ever present sniping by sharps rifles, has resulted in the almost exclusive use of one tactic ... Hunker down and prepare for custer's last stand.
    This could be fought as a line battle but adjustments to spawn points and out of bounds limits has made bunching together in a square the only way to keep a good eye out.
    - then there is the 4x ticket loss mechanic.
    It has had the intended effect of getting everyone to stay grouped but ...
    Having a group as small as 6 scouts means that after the death of the first guy the remaining 5 now cause the massive ticket loss that can not be absorbed. Scouting parties need to be large and unwieldy. 3 man skirm groups are no longer possible and watching the flank now falls to the main line.
    This ticket loss is greatly felt when the enemy is sniping reinforcements of a few men, a pug rambo keeps charging instead of playing as a team and if the defender doesn't focus an undue amount of attention on falling back and staying shoulder to shoulder.
    I say undue attention because it is one thing to fill in for a lost man but if ... And this has happened to me several times ... You are anchoring the end of the line and the two guys to your left get killed just before you, during a volley, then you are shot ... You are considered out of formation. There ought to be a small window where the chance to cover down is available.

    The effect of these recent adjustments has resulted in several sweeping changes. It is possible that this is intentional but we wish to note them here for informational purposes ...
    - we never see a map timer run out. 10 minute battles to the death are the new norm.
    - the ticket disparity now has the rebels losing almost every engagement when before we lost very few. Not a complaint but rather an observation of how much the game changes are having an effect.
    - win parameters are now overly skewed to the union side. The best example from this weekend was a skirm in which the yanks never took the point, not even once. The final death toll was 87 yanks dead to 38 rebs. The timer only ran for 8 minutes ... And we lost.
    - the weekend events used to be composed of 4 events consisting of approximately 3 skirmishes each of which the rebels won all but 1 or 2 of these 12 to 15 ... On a bad day.
    Now, we play at least 25 skirms and are lucky to win 1 all weekend.
    We now have a bit more empathy for the pain of our union foes but losing when you dominate a battle is not right.

    This brings me to our final point ...
    The confederate leadership is finding it increasingly difficult to convince our troops to attend anything except drills.
    Nobody has a problem with losing due to our own mistakes or miscalculations but it is hard to motivate a man to spend his few free hours a week testing a game that makes no sense.
    Again, this is early alpha and we are testing mechanics but no testing can be done without players.
    We aren't asking for favoritism or an easy ride ... You don't build muscle, courage or camaraderie by having victories handed to you. However, it is not fun for anyone to feel they are wasting their hard earned time on being a pop-up target with zero chance to win because the battle cry has been changed from deo vindice to deus ex machina.

    Thank you for your time and attention in reading this long post.
    We greatly appreciate your efforts and will always support and test the game and its developers.
    Our desire is to help bring this game to fruition and, although it may be unpopular to some, we can not and should not be yet another member of the wor forum echo chamber.

    i agree

  8. #8

    CSA Captain

    Timo420's Avatar
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    I do agree with the formation ticket system kinda fucking you over, most of the time you are just micromanaging your guys so they stay "in formation"
    Major Timo
    Click Picture To Enlist.

  9. #9
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timo420 View Post
    I do agree with the formation ticket system kinda fucking you over, most of the time you are just micromanaging your guys so they stay "in formation"
    I'm not sure I see anything wrong with that? One of the main tasks of the NCO's were to make sure gaps were filled and the formation was tight.

    Why not keep the advantage a more well managed formation/line has over a line that is not well managed? It fits with what we are trying to achieve here in regards to officers/NCO's spending more time on management/commanding than actual fighting themselves and also fits well in regards to the authenticity as stated above.

    - Trusty

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by John Cooley View Post
    Granted this is Alpha, and Early Alpha at that.
    We completely understand that the Purpose is focused on Testing Game Mechanics and possible Features.
    Further, Bug Reports and Testing the product for Play-ability and Launch Readiness are chiefly the purview of BETA Testing.
    That being said ... a few issues need to be addressed.
    Agreed

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