Exactly. To me, it would just feel wrong. Just like the rambo officers do right now lol...Originally Posted by A. P. Hill
USA Captain
Exactly. To me, it would just feel wrong. Just like the rambo officers do right now lol...
USA Captain
I may have missed it, but if you are implementing the flag re-spawn, why not make it only active if it is near an officer. Historically the officer and flag bearer (and color guard) stayed near each other so the regiment knew where to go and what to form up on. If you limit where the flag can go while allowing re-spawns (not behind the enemy lines) but it must be near an officer to be enabled, it forces the officer and flag to stay with the group in order to be useful. I hope that makes sense, it late and I am tired.
-Monkey
USA Captain
No, no, no. You gotta think these things through. This isn't real time strategy. You can't rely on many different pieces to come together for basic functionalities like spawning close to the front. Perhaps you could if you have some good system to put qualified players in those positions (linking with the company tool is not that) but we don't have it
No magic morale trinket bonuses or penalties either for the location of any given player. Even the flag bearer spawns will prove more problematic than anyone's willing to admit and will require many gamey new features to try and make it work.
CSA Major General
I all of this is an issue, but I only see it as an issue (and a big one ) at present game status being skirmish. The later game the officer issue should not be a problem, and I would hate to see something implemented now which will have to be taken away when the game is closer to completion and more folks are on each side. But for now,, I believe the bigger ticket loss for officers (only when out of line or skirmish) would be fair NOW and LATER.
All governments, everywhere derived its power by the consent of the people. The government you have is by your own consent. Not by those brave grey dead of one hundred and fifty plus years ago.
CSA Captain
I have no clue why the officer-being-played-by-rambo issue will magically disappear in more populated (100+ players) games. I am convinced about the opposite - it will be worse!
And I am quite sure, that team punishment won't discourage all Rambos doing the ramboing. The individual punishments (or boons) should be in place to motivate individual players to play proper.
Regarding teh blue CSA unifroms:
With autosurrender (or any other efficient remedy against ramboing), there won't be any spy/rambo melee - problem solved. And when you see a mass of soldiers in blue uniforms, you either recognise friendly/enemy by their behaviour or you would be puzzled like it historically happened several times. And especially the blue CSA uniforms caused friendly fire and confusion.
Raising spawn time is not going to solve the issue completely, but it would help to discourage ramboing. More radical remedies (like autosurrender AND/OR automatically striping the officer class from gunslinger after 2-3 deaths out of the formation and not allowing to select CO/NCO till the end of the map) need to be applied.
Last edited by Bivoj; 01-01-2018 at 09:13 PM.
USA Captain
I don't get it either. A lot of people have this image in their mind that a larger phalanx of players will somehow solve all sorts of problems. No, it won't. All these problems will be exacerbated greatly when you have more players.
I'm 31 years-old man. It's like final destination to me with the tight-nit realism communities with the end resulting being no different each time. Everybody makes the same assumptions over and over and over and then we end up with the same thing... A game that is only enjoyable and as the founders imagined it when in a controlled server environment with lots of bickering and arguing over rules. Why can't we have nice things? Why do we always have to plan to fail? Having to impose severely gamey concepts like the no-reloads for officers is 10 times worse a concession than "Oh gee, you mean I can't go walking up to a whole bunch of enemies by myself without my character surrendering?" That should be a duh feature that almost everyone supports. But too many are out for themselves and enjoy the concept of always being the exception to the rule while imagining that everyone else will somehow play the game they see fit. What you get is the same mundane reenacting-style play.
USA General of the Army
Having noted some of the recent public chat chatter, it would appear that many of the rambos are keeping personal score and announcing their "minor victories" on the public chat. I see comments like gunslinger says: "I just wiped out 4 enemy!" "I got 6 with 1 shot apiece." ad infinitum or ad nauseam as needed. I guess some people need the swelling of their heads to make them feel useful.
I'd like to see way less of that myself.
If you read a bit back on this thread you will see that we are, in fact, asking for more ideas from you gents.
We are still deciding which route to take so I won't be disclosing our course of action just yet. I will ask you a question regarding your much requested auto surrendering feature: How do you solve the issue of auto surrendering to an enemy you don't see? (examples of this happening: in cornfields or in dense forests). Implementing an auto surrender option will also mean drastically increasing the formation buff areas (as it will be tied to you, while being out of line entering an enemy "in formation" buff area - we're not going to be creating an additional area system for it as that is too costly).
We have several ideas (both from you guys in this thread) and our own currently on the table. They range from a costier death when out of line as an officer, demoting officers to privates when having been killed out of line a set amount of times, create a global auto surrender mechanic to initiating a countdown timer whenever the officer is out of line (upon 0 move the officer back to spawn with the message of there's no use for him in the field without men to lead).
Once one (or several, multiple could work as well) is found to have the correct effect in diminishing the rambo officers we're quite open to increasing the officer numbers or introduce reloadable revolvers.
- Trusty
USA Captain
For players in corn fields and such, the range should be close enough to where it isn't a major issue. It won't solve lone wolves completely but it will make them more of an annoyance and mitigated to long range combat, not something you have to stop and duke it out with toe-to-toe. The trigger for autosurrender should start as soon as you're in range at around 10% for the first second, 20% for the second second, etc. If you are legitimately moving alone or in a small group to contact with the enemy in a cornfield, you're asking for trouble. If you do run into them your reaction should be to turn around and run. I'd imagine the range of autosurrender being about 150% of the width of a road like the Hagerstown turnpike.
I don't think anything needs to be modified in buildings either. Players should be paranoid when isolated so that they choose to fall back rather than fight-to-the-death. Countless are the real-life scenarios where skirmishers occupying buildings would run or surrender rather than put up a fight to enemy closing in. It adds power to numbers. You can't just be 5 guys and hold your ground and maybe kill 5 or 6 or a group of 25. You can if you're a group of 5 guys and a group of 10 comes up. But, assuming you start losing guys your last couple may be autosurrendered. This would add a new dynamic to gameplay as players working together choose to preserve their organized fighting force in the field rather than get it wiped out on offense or defense. Imagine the value added and the continuation of an organized experience if groups of players would choose not to go down to the last man.
Players are gonna be players. To assume everyone is all on the same team when it comes to the success of the team is just not true. Not everyone concerns themselves with a hidden-ticket system with no individual accountability. Sure, you can increase spawn times for individual players dying out of line but I don't know if spawn times really effect players as much as people assume - particularly the ones ignorant of why spawn times were so long. It reminds me of a feature in RnL where the team with more players had a penalty spawn time. Teams would outnumber the other team 16-12 and nobody would have a clue why the spawn time was 90 seconds for the bigger team. Everyone figured it was a bug. Servers just ending up turning that feature and setting a standard spawn time instead of using the default system.
If you make it so the whole team is punished by the actions of lone wolves then you're just pitting the inconsiderate lone wolf against the team. That might sound effective but teammates have no way of knowing whose dying out of line (I'm not suggesting a score) and even if they did, they can't do anything other than trying to force them to behave which leaves you back at admins and closed server events being the way to 'force' people to behave. In my opinion, the best use of the 'line' feature is for rewarding players with a favorable spawn location. And that's really invaluable of its own to the individual player who understands it. Sorry to say, I'm not a huge fan of every round being dictated by morale because it's confusing and ambiguous.
Only being able to spawn as a certain class one time (flag bearer, officer) is a good supplement but servers really need control to turn that off for staged events so I can't see the feature seeing wide-spread use as an option. You can make it one-size-fits-all like that but imagine the disorganized mess when your designated officers can't respawn as officers in a live event (I'd argue that no player needs to be any specific class to lead but that's just me). I'd imagine officers would do a lot more to try and preserve their formations and reinforce them rather than just getting them wiped out if they only had one shot at it. What happens now is they recklessly attack and get their guys obliterated to the last man resulting in out-of-line casualties if they even had enough guys to be in line at the first place.
Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 01-01-2018 at 11:59 PM.
Hmm I still don't see any solution to the issues I raised above regarding an auto surrender system.
150% of a road is what, like 7 meters or so. That will not solve officer ramboing at all as it is easy to stand, say, 8 meters from a line and gun it down.
However 7 meters is easily enough to surrender without knowing what you're surrending to in a cornfield or the forests which doesn't make for an interesting outcome at all (you randomly either dropping your weapon or is despawned with a surrender message and moved back to the base without ever seeing the enemy - there's a good chance the enemy hasn't seen you either). In buildings you'd run into the rish of auto surrendering because there's a bunch of guys on the 2nd or even third floor above/below you.
I am inclined to (without any tests done yet, obviously) think tieing the officer to the formation buff system is the better choice. The class is meant to lead people and thus I'd argue a need to be with the people at all times is not out completely crazy (it is limited how much damage you can do if you are only able to be out of line for so long before being relocated back to spawn).
But as I said, we're still considering all options so please do keep the suggestions up.
- Trusty
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