An Interesting Idea: Civil War Alternate History TV Show

[Johnny_Reb_1865]

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I have heard a lot about Mr. Harry Turtledove's AH books and I watched "The Man In The High Castle" so I find the "what if" thing utterly fascinating.

What would ya'll think about a TV series like "The Man In The High Castle" if this scenario was applied to the ACW?


Let's discuss!!!

[Saris]

I think I saw a video talking about if the confederacy won, here ya go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exnwTWfFRM8

[FrancisM]

Ah yeah, that's a great one. Should be mandatory to watch for all Lost-Cause-types.

[Johnny_Reb_1865]

Ah yeah, that's a great one. Should be mandatory to watch for all Lost-Cause-types.

Lost Cause types?

[John Cooley]

I think I saw a video talking about if the confederacy won, here ya go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exnwTWfFRM8

It is an entertaining video and understandable that it would focus on the topic of Slavery, given today's education system.
But I pose this as the probable future ...
The Civil War was fought based on the premise of State's Rights and the issue of Slavery was considered minor by both North and South generally ... until Lincoln forced the issue late in the War. Certainly you had your ardent supporters and detractors on both sides but the Issue that drove men to leave promising Military careers in the US Army was the over reaching and dictatorial Federal Government.
As to the issue of Slavery ... modern inventions, such as the cotton gin, initially required an increase in slave labor but we can see through the lens of looking back that modernization and automation eventually kill unskilled labor jobs.
Slavery might have died out OR it might have shifted the labor force to other uses like Personal Trainers, Gardeners and Gladiatorial Fighters.
Who knows? We can speculate all we want but, as a fan of The Man in the High Castle, I too would enjoy seeing such a show.
Sadly ... it, like everything else in America today, would end up about Race and all debate and conjecture would end on the pointed spear of Political Correctness.
/jumps off soapbox
I fight for the Right of a State to determine its own Laws and Destiny ... as penned in our great Constitution.

[David Dire]

The Confederacy, and all it's supporters, was a cancer, and to have slavery even a short while longer than it did would be a crime. There is no good reason as to why a "Man in the high castle" show shouldnt focus on things to do with race.

[Hatchmo]

That video does not rightly present what would have been the CSA should they have won. Also the "lost cause type" is offensive at least.

Should the CSA have won, I think a few thing would have occured:

1. The most obvious is they would have been recognized as a nation throughout the world, including by the United States.

2. Would slavery have continued? For a time, sure. However, especially with the Industrial Revolution and the advances that were already being made during the War, the need for indentured servitude would have been replaced with other, more efficient means. I also feel that given the public opinion towards slavery during the War, not only by the Union but the fact that England and France did not support them, largely due to the Emancipation Proclamation and anti-slavery stance, that the CSA would have seen the need to put an end to slavery in order for their survival as a nation.

3. The Confederacy would have flourished with it's trade to other countries, including the United States (let's face it they needed the product of the South). This would have given them a new found financial independence which they lacked while part of the United States due to the high tariffs. The United States would not have been able to impose high tariffs on trade with the CSA because it could have been returned in high tariffs imposed on the United States (again they needed the product). Other countries would have stepped up, particularly Mexico due to their fairly recent defeat by the United States in the Mexican-American War. England would have strongly supported the CSA in a show of solidarity over their right to secede and form their own country, just as the United States had done from England.

4. Major cities in the CSA would begin to develop industry and dive head first into the Industrial Revolution. This would have been a direct result of trade between the CSA and US (cotton for steel, etc). The CSA would further their financial independence from this change.

5. You would begin to see an increased number of immigrants coming to the CSA increasing population and work force.

[John Cooley]

Well said Hatchmo

The Morality of Slavery isn't the issue .. we all agree it was abhorrent because we were not raised with it.
100 years from now we will be called Criminals and Beasts for allowing the marriage of 14 year olds when a full 1/2 of the states still allow it.
OR perhaps the eating of meat will not be acceptable, in 200 years, and we will all be painted by the ever present brush of Future Morality.
Habeus Corpus also applies to History and not just the Law.

The issue is IF the South had won would they have been able to be a viable nation, changed their use of slave labor and remained independent?
I believe THAT would be a great show to watch, as they explore the possibilities ...
as long as beating the dead over the head with the 'Slavery Bat' were not its sole purpose.

[FrancisM]

Lost Cause-types: People who glorify the confederacy as some sort bunch of democracy-loving freedomfighters against the evul Federal government while ignoring that whole annoying racist slavery thing as just a minor footnote. If you feel like I am describing you, too bad.

Sure the Confederacy seceded for the sake of state's right. A very specific right to do one very specific thing.

The whole discussion we are having here is why there won't be a series like this anytime soon. They will have to discuss the issue of slavery in the series somewhere, whether it was the cause for the war and whether it would succeed and that's bound to create a whooole lot of troubles no TV producer will be keen on attaching his or her name to.

Didn't cotton prices collapse after the Civil War because Great Britain had largely expanded the cotton production in India?

[Hatchmo]

I don't support slavery and it was a horrible part of world history, not just American history.

But I don't agree with the blame being solely laid upon the South and the Union being placed on an anti-slavery pedestal. Nor do I buy that the War was fought over slavery but in fact it was not.

For example, slavery existed prior to the Revolution and well after it. The United States was founded with slavery in place. Every slave ship that brought slaves to the North American Continent did so flying either the US flag or the British flag, even during the War. Never did a vessel belonging to the Confederacy bring slaves to the South. Sure the North started to outlaw slavery but what did they do? Well, they largely sold their slaves to the South instead of freeing them. Then they agreed to what became the Fugitive Slave Act in which they would catch and return a runaway slave and of course receive payment for doing it. Prior to Lincoln being elected, he stated that he had no intention of interfering with the institution of slavery where it existed and felt that he did not have the right to do so. He echoed this sentiment after his election. He also supported the Corwin Amendment, which had it been ratified, would have become the 13th Amendment to the Constitution forever legalizing slavery and prohibiting the federal government from interfering with it. In fact, he personally sent a copy of this proposed Amendment, which he supported, to all Southern states governors in hopes of reconciling the Union. The fact that NONE of the states took Lincoln up on his offer is proof that they did not secede merely over slavery because after all, this would basically gift wrap it for them. Also, the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in the "States of the Rebellion" and the boarder states which still maintained slaves were allowed to keep them. President Lincoln himself also said that if he could preserve the Union without freeing one slave, he would do it. Or that if he could preserve the Union by freeing every slave, he would do that. There are also many quotes by Lincoln clearly stating that he felt black people were inferior in every way to white people. He also made it very clear that the only reason he pursued the War was to maintain the Union. When asked why he didn't just let the Southern states go peacefully, he asked where he would then get his money from. (These quotes are all paraphrased by the way). In fact, the official reason for the War which can be found on all government documents currently located in the Library of Congress state it was to preserve the Union. The Emancipation Proclamation was purely a war strategy. Unfortunately, most people are too uneducated on the subject to realize that. Instead, the put Lincoln and the Union on this high moral pedestal where they do not belong.

THAT is the problem with society today. Uneducated. Falsely indoctrinated. Politically correct. Liberal and ignorant. History is written by the victors. Had the CSA won, I promise you history would remember it in a vastly different manor and slavery would not be the hot topic that it is today. In Nazi Germany and North Korean fashion, history is still politically influenced.

As far as what happened to cotton. Great Britain developed a lucrative cotton trade out of Egypt due to the inaccessibility of Southern cotton during the War, due to the blockade and the fact that the South reduced it's production.