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Mjtkd
02-19-2013, 05:00 PM
I would think a lot of people right now are wondering what the combat will be like. Will the melee play a large part? If so what sort of style will it play as for example, mount and blade or chivalry? Shooting of course will be important due to the introduction of the rifled musket. A feature many players may enjoy is using iron sights to shoot as an option. On a side note will there be both 1st and 3rd person? Personally I would enjoy the game even more if we had to be locked into 1st person since it would add a lot to the realism.

Fancy Sweetroll
02-19-2013, 05:21 PM
There will be melee combat in the game, but I suspect it wont be the main way to kill the enemy. As you said. The rifled musket were introduced and as a result of that, most of the engagements were over before they got into bayonet range. But as to how the mechanic will work, we haven't decided yet ;). We are trying to make the game as realistic and immersive as possible and therefor the player will be locked in the 1st person view :)

Mjtkd
02-19-2013, 05:57 PM
I am really starting to love the idea of this game. :D

Wolfy
02-20-2013, 11:10 AM
i am really starting to love the idea of this game. :d


+10,000,000,000 :d

TrustyJam
02-21-2013, 08:46 AM
Just out of curiosity... how far would you guys go with the realism regarding the lethality of getting shot if you were creating the game? :)

- Trusty

Wolfy
02-21-2013, 01:51 PM
Hmm depends.Well shots back then dident always kill on impact but rather would wound/rip apart limbs in some cases.I watch a documentary about Gettsburg which had a bit on the bullets use there,the bullet was riged so it would causes infection.The riges would shatter bone to which back then ment amputation or death,which ofcourse made this one of the most brutal wars ever.But to give it that much power would be amazing for realism but would result in a OP weapon.

TrustyJam
02-21-2013, 02:06 PM
Hmm depends.Well shots back then dident always kill on impact but rather would wound/rip apart limbs in some cases.I watch a documentary about Gettsburg which had a bit on the bullets use there,the bullet was riged so it would causes infection.The riges would shatter bone to which back then ment amputation or death,which ofcourse made this one of the most brutal wars ever.But to give it that much power would be amazing for realism but would result in a OP weapon.

You're talking about the new live action history channel documentary I think. Some pretty nice effects in that one. Actual facts are a bit on the light side though. :) That being said, yes, it was most certainly not pleasent being on the receiving end of a minié ball. A gut shot back then ment death and we intend to have it just like that in WoR as well. While crippling, a ball to the arms or legs would however be more manageable. Nothing is set in stone yet, but I'd love to implement a bandage and bleedout system (think something like DayZ) as well as a "nerf" to the actual limb (like shaky aiming if hit in the arm or not being able to run if hit in the leg).

About the weapons being overpowered, well, weapons were overpowered compared to the tactics of the time. That's the main reason for the high casualties.

- Trusty

Wolfy
02-21-2013, 02:59 PM
Meh it was still good watching xD As i stated before never been a huge civil war fan so dont know much about the time.I was always a Roman guy myself :D Well it's nice to hear that your going for realism when it comes to shooting.Unlike NW/NaS where you get shot in the face and keep running but when you get shot in the foot you die.

TrustyJam
02-21-2013, 03:29 PM
Meh it was still good watching xD As i stated before never been a huge civil war fan so dont know much about the time.I was always a Roman guy myself :D Well it's nice to hear that your going for realism when it comes to shooting.Unlike NW/NaS where you get shot in the face and keep running but when you get shot in the foot you die.

If you want a nice and easy way into "learning the ropes" check out Ken Burns Civil War. That series and Gettysburg were the ones that drew me into this great conflict.

- Trusty

William
03-19-2013, 11:53 AM
If you want a nice and easy way into "learning the ropes" check out Ken Burns Civil War. That series and Gettysburg were the ones that drew me into this great conflict.

- Trusty


thanks for that information Trusty

Av3ng3r
03-19-2013, 12:28 PM
If you plan on making the meleesystem less dominant, doesn't that make the gameplay a bit tedious? Depending on reload times you might just stand there for 5 minutes not doing much except reloading.

Sgt-Frede
03-19-2013, 01:03 PM
5 minutes of reloading? He must be very slow :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y3jJE5yc-E

Wolfy
03-19-2013, 01:04 PM
Melee was a huge or part of every war up untill about world war one.Where after losing thousends of men a day they learn to look in to diffrent sorts of warfare,such as bombs,gas and tanks.So i feel its important to have a good melee system that people will actully use rather then just as a last stand sort of thing.

Av3ng3r
03-19-2013, 02:59 PM
5 minutes of reloading? He must be very slow :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y3jJE5yc-E

Obviously with firing.... But you basicly just stand there doing nothing except firing every 20seconds. And I somewhat doubt the soldiers on the battlefield were so effective reloaders.



Melee was a huge or part of every war up untill about world war one.Where after losing thousends of men a day they learn to look in to diffrent sorts of warfare,such as bombs,gas and tanks.So i feel its important to have a good melee system that people will actully use rather then just as a last stand sort of thing.

I second that.

Wolfy
03-19-2013, 03:14 PM
Indeed.When shots and cannon balls are flying all around you its hard to reload quickly.

Redclaw
03-19-2013, 03:24 PM
Just out of curiosity... how far would you guys go with the realism regarding the lethality of getting shot if you were creating the game? :)

- Trusty

Working with different hitboxes could help. Kind of like in Mount and Blade Warband. If you get hit in the leg you don't suffer so much damage as you get when you're hit in the stomach

Wolfy
03-19-2013, 06:31 PM
WB system would be good if it was not so stuiped when it came to body parts and health.Like i was playing Native lastnight and i was shot in the neck and only lost half my health.A few lives later i was shot in the foot when i had full health died.....So if you do go for a system like that please for all are sakes make it the right way xD

William
03-20-2013, 05:59 AM
Working with different hitboxes could help. Kind of like in Mount and Blade Warband. If you get hit in the leg you don't suffer so much damage as you get when you're hit in the stomach

I think a hitbox as in Red Orchestra 2 would be awsome :) .

TrustyJam
03-20-2013, 06:14 AM
Working with different hitboxes could help. Kind of like in Mount and Blade Warband. If you get hit in the leg you don't suffer so much damage as you get when you're hit in the stomach

This is most certainly something we'll use - and possibly expand that even further.

- Trusty

SgtPepper
03-20-2013, 11:23 AM
Melee was a huge or part of every war up untill about world war one.Where after losing thousends of men a day they learn to look in to diffrent sorts of warfare,such as bombs,gas and tanks.So i feel its important to have a good melee system that people will actully use rather then just as a last stand sort of thing.
the end of the civil war brought a glimpse of warfare of the future. trenches and long waiting times before an actual attack, just like WWII would be later. so depending on the theatre, melee wasnt as important as artillery and good shooting

TrustyJam
03-20-2013, 11:30 AM
the end of the civil war brought a glimpse of warfare of the future. trenches and long waiting times before an actual attack, just like WWII would be later. so depending on the theatre, melee wasnt as important as artillery and good shooting

Indeed. The soldiers of the civil war encountered just a few more stab wounds than soldiers in WWI or WWII would.

- Trusty

Soulfly
03-20-2013, 03:23 PM
Hello,

As a Veteran of "Battlegrounds 2" (a FPS game about the american war of independence) i can say that even in that game, melee wasnt that important because the charging team always ended up in getting shot to pieces and during Linebattles (clan vs. clan) melee attacks were done when about 3/4 of the team were dead....so i suggest to keep the distance :)



Regards

TrustyJam
03-20-2013, 03:31 PM
Hello,

As a Veteran of "Battlegrounds 2" (a FPS game about the american war of independence) i can say that even in that game, melee wasnt that important because the charging team always ended up in getting shot to pieces and during Linebattles (clan vs. clan) melee attacks were done when about 3/4 of the team were dead....so i suggest to keep the distance :)



Regards

Welcome to the forum!

Haha yeah I remember that mod.. had a bit of fun with that one. :)

- Trusty

William
03-21-2013, 06:12 AM
Welcome to the forum!

Haha yeah I remember that mod.. had a bit of fun with that one. :)

- Trusty

Jup that mod was awsome i loved the LB´s on strainge ways

(thats a map with a road in the middle some cornfeelds on the rights side and some hills on the left it was awsome !!!)

Wolfy
03-21-2013, 08:54 AM
My point is that there where still charges in the civil war,granted they almost never worked but melee was still a large facter.So having a good melee system is worth the time and effort since there will always be that one braveheart who charges across a huge open field and some how gets to you and r*pes you in melee.So while shooting is good have a good melee system as well :D Since whats the point in slowly marching across a field if you cant charge when your 10 feet away and lossed 3/4 of your men :)

Chris Mchayes
03-21-2013, 10:42 AM
yea i would think civil war had more stab wounds then WWI and WWII due to the fact that they had weapons that fired 1 bullet every minute - 2 mins xD

TrustyJam
03-21-2013, 10:46 AM
yea i would think civil war had more stab wounds then WWI and WWII due to the fact that they had weapons that fired 1 bullet every minute - 2 mins xD

3 balls a minute. And they had the new powerful rifles and officers using outdated tactics.. all in all this resulted in about as few stab wounds as the two other wars. The soldiers simply rarely reached eachother due to the increased accuracy of the rifles.

- Trusty

Chris Mchayes
03-21-2013, 10:53 AM
hmmmm, i look dumb now lol :o

William
04-03-2013, 11:33 AM
If there are diffrent Rifels,Musketes will they have the same range or will they have ghost range ?

[RG]Chewie
08-17-2013, 08:23 AM
Probably one of the most interesting things i have read regarding the instant or near instant lethality of the minie ball was that during an engagement wounded men would often walk back from the engagement line to the rear to receive aid. This leads me to believe that even though you wouldn't always be killed straight away you would most likely be taken out of the fight when struck with a ball.
So for realism's sake it would be interesting to see your ability to walk or load a weapon diminish drastically depending on where you are hit.

Now for bayonet wounds, only few were reported because when you received the business end of the bayonet you were in need of an autopsy and those were not performed very often or really at all during the war.

On the rifled musket loading topic here is a quick reference on loading in nine times. (It always amazes me that 3 shots a minute was pretty much the norm in battle.)
http://www.64thill.org/drillmanuals/caseys_infantrytactics/volume1/part03.htm

GeorgeCrecy
10-13-2013, 07:24 AM
A good infantryman could get three shots off a minute as Chewie mentions above. And in terms of the effects of battle, many soldiers with all the shots and orders and explosions going off all about them tended to misfire or not pull the trigger at all, and then continue to load again. After the battle of Gettysburg, they collected all the weapons off the battleground so that they could possibly be reused. Of the 27,000 rifles they collected, 24,000 of them were still loaded. and one made the record at 23 minie balls, 63 buckshot, and quite a bit of powder in it.
Now, in terms of the melee system, there is little chance they would not include it, considering that this war was for the most part fought with the tactics of the Napoleonic Wars, which was in essence to fire a volley or two into the enemies ranks, followed by a rousing call and thrust of steel into the 'blagards.' The men were also taught the use of close-ranged fighting, against saber and against other bayonets while in training. Here I would suggest the perusal of McClellan's Manual of Bayonet Exercises (http://www.federalvolunteerbrigade.org/files/McClelland%20Bayonet%20Exercise.pdf) (<---- linked in the name) that he translated from various French drill books and adapted to the US system. This manual pertains to both sides, as both were taught the same thing, if not from the same book on occasion.
And, again as Chewie mentioned above, very few people went back to the hospital following a dance with the business end of a bayonet. Fewer than 5,000 cases from the whole war, at least from Union medical records, were of soldiers with bayonet wounds.
Plus, I am not sure how many of you are familiar with the shape of the bayonets used by Springfield and Enfield Rifled-Muskets, but their shape is banned by the Geneva convention, though for good reason. The triangular shape of the bayonet makes it incredibly difficult for a surgeon to patch the wound up. And, even if he did, as soon as the patient moved the wound would open right back up and become infected.
I am thinking I will make a separate thread to post information about the medical field of the Civil War, considering that is a lecture and a half in itself...

Calvin809
10-28-2013, 05:46 AM
If you want a nice and easy way into "learning the ropes" check out Ken Burns Civil War. That series and Gettysburg were the ones that drew me into this great conflict.

- Trusty

That's exactly how I got interested way back when Gettysburg was on VHS :)

Calvin809
10-28-2013, 05:50 AM
Is there a way to scale how damage will affect your game? Such as a realistic setting where getting hit (most of the time) would take you out of the battle all the way up to more arcade like where damage would slow you or affect aiming or reload speed?