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View Full Version : Lead a platoon last night again



JohnDewitt
12-11-2017, 03:21 PM
Been a while since I lead and none of the big outfits which claim possession of the officer roles (and will TK you if you don't give them up by the way) were around on the CSA side. The USA had the 51st NYC in force and organised. So after a round of us getting rekt on the bloody lane CSA players were asking for leadership and wondering where II was or any of the ALA companies. So I took the officer class the next round, contrary what I said about not leading anymore. We formed a line in the cornfield and pushed those yankee's back. I believe Ga. and some leaders of II joined a little later with reinforcements and found our line holding the point firmly.

Of course I enjoyed leading the men (and women possibly I don't know) into battle. Especially if they know what they're doing, or doing the best they can to receive, interpret and execute the orders they hear. But the tiny thingy I'd like to underline here is:


THIS GAME NEEDS LEADERS

Men lead by an officer will absolutely destroy a steerless mob. But as yesterday showed, even a little leadership (I didn't play with these people before let alone training together) can go a long looooong way.

Thanks :)

SouthCarolina
12-11-2017, 03:30 PM
So this is a "I am great story", O yes you mention that this game needs leaders. Very interesting.

JohnDewitt
12-11-2017, 03:38 PM
Well I am great! No, really it were the people playing CSA who were great yesterday. For trusting a leader they didn't know and working with what they had. :) Anyone can be a leader with a little patience, a microphone and reading up on some tactics. We need more of them.

Bravescot
12-11-2017, 03:45 PM
Anyone can be a leader with a little patience, a microphone and reading up on some tactics. We need more of them.
Not everyone is good at it or meant for it though. So no, not everyone can be a leader even with practice.

You win some you loose some. If they want to take officer they may take officer. It doesn't make them a leader though. A good leader should be able to take control of the situation and command, class choice regardless.

JohnDewitt
12-11-2017, 03:53 PM
Not everyone is good at it or meant for it though. So no, not everyone can be a leader even with practice.

You win some you loose some. If they want to take officer they may take officer. It doesn't make them a leader though. A good leader should be able to take control of the situation and command, class choice regardless.

But if more people try it, we'll find more leaders among them.

Bravescot
12-11-2017, 04:21 PM
But if more people try it, we'll find more leaders among them.

You're not wrong there.

Joe_Pineapples
12-11-2017, 04:50 PM
Go easy fellas.. I myself never tire of of hearing a tale of heroism, Where the Blue invader gets his ass handed to him by a ragtag handful of spirited rebels pushed back but not beaten...Well done John.hats off! Hurray for Dixie!! As for the leader thing no not everyone can be leaders. A good officer needs to have many attributes tactical awareness, presence, time to invest in the game and most importantly the ability get their message across without being insulting or patronising. I have met lots of officers in this game but very few who hold all these qualities..

Redleader
12-11-2017, 05:32 PM
But if more people try it, we'll find more leaders among them.

You're not wrong there.

I fully agree, hence not to forget that people of the same company/regiment will listen to their officers/NCO's.

Not all people are natural leaders, some grow into their role ... others do miserably.
Others are comfortable in their role as soldier, NCO, we do need diversity.

In a regiment it's important to give people a chance to take on more responsability and act as a coach.
We've seen it before if the officer goes down, the group crumbles to disarray ... so a good hierarchy works wonders.

I also believe that blindly recruiting or accepting does more harm then benefit.

Bravescot
12-11-2017, 05:44 PM
I also believe that blindly recruiting or accepting does more harm then benefit.

Agreed, but not fully. Recruiting everyone and anyone that shows an interest is fine. All you got to then do is refine the crowd to those you want and those you don't want if you're being picky. If not then, training to an acceptable level will the be the challenge.

Like with leading, not everyone is suited to following. Some are in the awkward middle ground where they don't want to follow, but are not close to good enough to lead.

JTW
12-11-2017, 06:00 PM
Agreed, but not fully. Recruiting everyone and anyone that shows an interest is fine. All you got to then do is refine the crowd to those you want and those you don't want if you're being picky. If not then, training to an acceptable level will the be the challenge.
Yeah i agree with this, i think everyone should get a fair chance if they're interested in joining. From my perspective it's more up to the leadership to show the way and tell them what's expected from them, and what kind of behavior isn't welcome etc. Besides, everyone can have off nights where they act like a prick, despite being good guys, so second chances and working together to avoid bad behaviour is key as well.

Timo420
12-11-2017, 06:26 PM
At this point I think it is quite crucial to accept everyone that come to you and shows enthousiasm, everyone at least paid 70 $, wich means they are atleast somewhat willing to play this game in a proper manner and not just troll around, the amount of good men you will miss by turning down people is just outweighing the amount of bad ones you will have to let go, I only started this unit 3 1\2 month ago and yet we are already one of the biggest and quite good out there and are serious to a certain degree, we only had to kick 2 guys who where trolls the rest of the guys do great especially if you help them out in the beginning and train them alot.

Redleader
12-11-2017, 08:36 PM
Agreed, but not fully. Recruiting everyone and anyone that shows an interest is fine.

Well it's like getting a job, you scout some regiments and see who you can join, but I also believe we can except some dedication and some mutual respect.
I've seen clans breakup or people who would stop playing cause people don't get along, and yes it is the role of a 'leader' to prevent escalation.
I get what you're trying to say Bravescot and I appreciate people coaching and putting energy in investing into people.
Luckily most of the players are genuinly interested in the game and are respectfull (sure, we do get the whole Union/CSA roleplay thing on the forums ... I call it immersion and Psychological Warfare :p).



Yeah i agree with this, i think everyone should get a fair chance if they're interested in joining. From my perspective it's more up to the leadership to show the way and tell them what's expected from them, and what kind of behavior isn't welcome etc. Besides, everyone can have off nights where they act like a prick, despite being good guys, so second chances and working together to avoid bad behaviour is key as well.

Certainly a point when saying people can have an off day or there is some miscommunication or things get heated for some reason, a bit of perspective is sometimes needed.
I'm just not in for taking the first best offer then to see things don't work out, they might work out fine though.
At the moment players might join the active companies just to play in group. (nothing wrong with that really)

It wasn't a comment on new players, I welcome new players ... but I hope they find a good group where everyone feels good.

Timo420
12-11-2017, 08:57 PM
Certainly a point when saying people can have an off day or there is some miscommunication or things get heated for some reason, a bit of perspective is sometimes needed.
I'm just not in for taking the first best offer then to see things don't work out, they might work out fine though.
At the moment players might join the active companies just to play in group. (nothing wrong with that really)

It wasn't a comment on new players, I welcome new players ... but I hope they find a good group where everyone feels good.

I mean what other units are there to join but the active ones, there isn't any point in getting the game for 70$ to join a unit that is dead or is waiting for full release.

Redleader
12-11-2017, 09:23 PM
At this point I think it is quite crucial to accept everyone that come to you and shows enthousiasm

It's a small 'nuance' that the player itself is asking to join instead of 'a recruiter/recruiters' trying to recruit everybody new who gets in.
I'm just a bit more reluctant and don't like to hasten things, but that's just my personal feeling.
I used to jump the gun more ... and well sometimes you get shot :)

Redleader
12-11-2017, 09:28 PM
I mean what other units are there to join but the active ones, there isn't any point in getting the game for 70$ to join a unit that is dead or is waiting for full release.

True, and during the events people can tell what the currently active groups are (we had some more before).

JohnDewitt
12-12-2017, 04:11 PM
I do think the officer system should change though. At the moment when a leader of a large company shows up they'll demand the officer role. They'll even TK officers with the excuse that "they don't need it". Obviously this goes hand in hand with the members of that big company being in discord/teamspeak and receiving orders there to not obey that "random" officer, thus making it seem like that officer is legitimately doing a bad job. A most atrocious state of affairs which is absolutely not welcoming to potential new leadership. And since leadership makes or breaks this game, without it you're going to have to rely on a very select few (I wouldn't be surprised if its less than 10) individuals to orchestrate the entirety of the player base. If they're not online, there are no leaders, if there are no leaders people will get bored and play less during those hours. Result, empty servers around the clock except on those hours these companies/leaders are online.

Kind of like how it is right now.

Timo420
12-12-2017, 04:46 PM
*Meanwhile in 6th Alabama "Wy is this random Pvt. Officers class" "Well he needs to draw the enemy fire!"* Luckily I never have to officer and my guys seem to perfectly able to fight alongside me while listening to my commands, a pistol is just 1 man less carrying a rifle, pistol wielding officers who are hiding behind their men get no respect.

Redleader
12-12-2017, 05:26 PM
*Meanwhile in 6th Alabama "Wy is this random Pvt. Officers class" "Well he needs to draw the enemy fire!"* Luckily I never have to officer and my guys seem to perfectly able to fight alongside me while listening to my commands, a pistol is just 1 man less carrying a rifle, pistol wielding officers who are hiding behind their men get no respect.

Well in most regiments, people can tell who's who by hearing their voices :)
Frontline officer are mostly greatly respected through history, but a whole lot of them just perished into the unknown.

The hiding part
It's not hiding per se, when using the 'ingame chat' it's adviced to be close to the men.
Another factor is that an officer is a primary target (hell yeah), and unless it's some kind of heroic charge it's adviced to take some cover :)
We had to tell a certain officer multiple times to get his head down (his name starts with a P and ends with 'aioletti)

The immersion
There is much detail in the uniforms and the whole diversity gives it a more historical feeling.

The usefullness, talking about the class not the 'role of an officer'
We've seen multiple times that an pistol wielding officer during a rush or countercharge can shift the balance.
They are also pretty mobile and can reinforce a certain position pretty fast, they can cover their men while they are reloading ...
Others use it to hunt down 'loners' or certain individuals (yes 51th.NY Blake, that's you I'm taking about), and with the 'morale system' ... it kinda works.

Redleader
12-12-2017, 05:28 PM
if there are no leaders people will get bored and play less during those hours. Result, empty servers around the clock except on those hours these companies/leaders are online.
Kind of like how it is right now.

That's not the mean reason, but I get the point :).
On the other hand while there are just people on, it's good to test some weapons and tactics or just have some fun around and do stuff which you cannot do during skirmish.

Timo420
12-12-2017, 05:33 PM
The hiding part
It's not hiding per se, when using the 'ingame chat' it's adviced to be close to the men.
Another factor is that an officer is a primary target (hell yeah), and unless it's some kind of heroic charge it's adviced to take some cover :)
We had to tell a certain officer multiple times to get his head down (his name starts with a P and ends with 'aioletti)



Btw did we get any of your officers last week, as if we didn't we weren't really doing what I have been training my guys to do ;)

Redleader
12-12-2017, 05:36 PM
Btw did we get any of your officers last week, as if we didn't we weren't really doing what I have been training my guys to do ;)

The training paid off, is that was your question :o

Timo420
12-12-2017, 05:39 PM
alright, good to know all that shooting practise wasn't wasted :rolleyes:

Poorlaggedman
12-13-2017, 12:11 AM
I'd like to see them take the officer class out for a few weeks and see what happens. It's entirely unnecessary and even toxic on the scale we're playing on. It's just a class with a weapon that's great for close combat and had to be highly nerfed in its current form (limit players to one officer spawn per map and see what happens). Well-meaning people trying to lead is not the same as competent people trying to lead (do what's best for the team). People who continue to try and assert themselves into a role while only going for the thrill of reenactment do not need to be respected or listened to and shouldn't. It's entirely disrespectful that there are people who are continually leading in events and continuing the ordering of fruitless charges as the general strategy while doing next-to-nothing for putting their guys into a position to succeed. There is zero honor in getting your team butchered. I've read a lot of battle reports from the Civil War and I don't remember many that go "Well we ran in a single file line to this flank... that didn't work so we tried the other..." The basic strategy accepted as doctrine today in this game is to glob up as many men as possible and line them in the same bizarre fashion as I've seen done in other 'line battle' Youtube video and do just that. It's not that it's the best strategy, it's just the people trying to run the show are simply imitating and not leading. Can anyone give me a possible explanation as to why there is literally never an attempt to scout on offense? Never? Do people's brains cease to work or are they just too busy on trying to hold together a complex temporary social contract? Is the exact disposition of the enemy on, say a rail fence not important to anyone's plan? And if you can't handle the critique (like some of you in this very discussion), you should spend more time following--not leading.

Timo420
12-13-2017, 09:09 AM
Wy haven't you actually started your own unit yet Poorlagged? Take no offense but you always seem to be the guy with the great plans, but never puts them into practise.

SouthCarolina
12-13-2017, 09:52 AM
Talk = Cheap

Joe_Pineapples
12-13-2017, 03:49 PM
Not true Poorlaggedman in one of this weekends events in the West Woods a well drilled 6th Alabama playing as the Union first held the attention of the Confederates then sent another flanking force to turn the flank and kill off respawning Rebs, slowly strangling the defending Confederates on point.This showed that a well drilled team with a plan led by good officers will win the day. incidentally what happened next made this encounter one to remember... the CSA made up largely of 2nd Corps realized what was happening and put together a devastating bayonet charge which cleared the cunning Union threat, all to late ... we lost. I was fighting with the CSA. The discussion afterwards on teamspeak was encouraging and constructive and showed the officers were far from stagnant and understood fully what had happened and how to avoid a recurrence... well done 6th Alabama well done 2nd Corp and well done others involved who I have not mentioned . GG also for what its worth I am unbiased and not a part of the above companies... Joe Pineapples rides with the devil!

Joe_Pineapples
12-13-2017, 03:59 PM
Officers are not so hard to handle... maintain distance, take them out first and bayonet or club them in 2's. Rambo officers are easy to deal with especially if you yourself have an officer to cover reloads.. I think they actually promote teamwork. As for scouting i regularly see scouts being sent.. don't take this the wrong way please but do you play events?

Redleader
12-13-2017, 06:25 PM
And if you can't handle the critique (like some of you in this very discussion), you should spend more time following--not leading.

I presume Poorlaggedman you are a mÍme fan, so here's one specially made with paint (the program for true meme editing).

7632

You sure told us ! :)

Redleader
12-13-2017, 06:30 PM
Officers are not so hard to handle...

That also includes own officers ? Like for instance as an acting officer I excepted some Union boys trying to surrender, I gave my word that no harm would come to them (both side soldiers listen)... then some overexcited soldier named Joe Something shows up and just 'Pineapples' those poor lads tired of the war and the random artillery.

Joe_Pineapples
12-13-2017, 06:38 PM
Hahaha War is hell my friend.... and just for the record any you blue boys ever see me trying to surrender shoot me then shoot the flying pig overhead!

Timo420
12-13-2017, 06:53 PM
A force of habit Joe? xD, it seem we trained you well.

Joe_Pineapples
12-13-2017, 06:57 PM
Yes Sir... Maybe i Should'nt attend that Christmas Event...XD....