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Wilson
10-29-2015, 05:01 AM
So as I understand it the game will be locked in first person veiw, will there/can there be some way for a third person veiw. My reasoning behind it would be to help formations keep cohesion while offering a betterfied of vision. If you look at the kick starter video you see the men suddenly form into column and then a line, I know some of those where devs but a few must have been ai and being a member if my high school marching band, I know that to keep in formation you would need to use your peripheral vision. Since this is a game I don't see how players could do that kind of formations on the go, much less form a perfect line like that.

Mainly I say this due to the many NW, NAS regs I have been in, and in my expirences it just isn't practical to be first person when its time to be in formations, on the go and to an extent in a fight. Now when we do get to the point that regiments start forming, I don't know about any one else but I like to take/be part of in game regimental photos and in the past to either take them or be in and take you need to be either in spec or 3rd person.

Now for the folks who will scream realism, I know. However I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this, and from a new player stand point it would be beneficial for the new people to see the regiments/sqauds/armies in formation so that they can learn, if they can't see I then they won't do it, and being a fps you will still have those not in regs/armies ect who will go the call of duty mentality, so to keep an eye for rambos it would be a good idea for 3td person veiw to keep an eye out.

I'm sure this may have been discussed but I want to get feedback. Thanks for reading.

Simon445
10-29-2015, 09:40 AM
Probably said million times now. This will only be 1st person. Might change for cavalry but highly doubt.

And game mechanics will make formations easier (I hope)

VictorFernandes
10-29-2015, 03:36 PM
What they can implement is some sort of free cam so you can look around your surroundings even for spot enemies at distance while running at one direction.

A. P. Hill
10-29-2015, 04:05 PM
Let me ask a simple question, in the course of your day to day life do you use a 3rd person viewpoint? Point being you can't use one in real life and this effort is to restrict to as near real life as possible.

In real life if you needed to dress a line you have to look to your right and left I don't see what's so hard about doing that in this environment.

Track ball has been suggested to help with the first person view. Free cameras also need limiting as they could be employed as a cheat.

TrustyJam
10-29-2015, 04:05 PM
What they can implement is some sort of free cam so you can look around your surroundings even for spot enemies at distance while running at one direction.

Free look is already in-game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IHTCLY7YNU

- Trusty

A. P. Hill
10-29-2015, 04:07 PM
That's a terrible column. They're all out of step. ;)

VictorFernandes
10-29-2015, 04:36 PM
Free look is already in-game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IHTCLY7YNU

- Trusty

Oh yes....

*walking away ashamed*

Wilson
10-29-2015, 10:01 PM
OK so it still shows them haveing to turn their head complety, I'm talking about perifials. Just saying 3rd person would be nice

A. P. Hill
10-29-2015, 10:16 PM
OK so it still shows them haveing to turn their head complety, I'm talking about perifials. Just saying 3rd person would be nice

"would be nice" ... not needed. Takes away from the realism that the developers are trying to bring into this.

Willie Fisterbottom
10-29-2015, 10:40 PM
I don't see why we cant have both, people who own servers can decide whether to have 1st and 3rd, or just 1st person view. This way people who want the realism experience can be happy and the more casual people can be happy. I agree though forming lines in 3rd person is easier i also prefer doing melee combat in any game in 3rd person.

Bravescot
10-30-2015, 12:14 AM
"would be nice" ... not needed. Takes away from the realism that the developers are trying to bring into this.

I fully agree. 3rd person is not needed at all.

Wilson
10-30-2015, 01:38 AM
Form a realism stand point sure its not needed, but from a practical it is.

A. P. Hill
10-30-2015, 01:43 AM
Form a realism stand point sure its not needed, but from a practical it is.

Once again I ask, from a practcal stand point when do you use a 3rd person view in your day to day life?

Devmc99
10-30-2015, 02:11 AM
Once again I ask, from a practcal stand point when do you use a 3rd person view in your day to day life?

Bro, do you even 3rd person?

Bravescot
10-30-2015, 02:27 AM
Bro, do you even 3rd person?

Bro I see 6th person!

A. P. Hill
10-30-2015, 03:00 AM
Bro, do you even 3rd person?

I function in a 3D life every day without 3rd person.

Bravescot
10-30-2015, 03:10 AM
I function in a 3D life every day without 3rd person.

We're having a laugh mate.....no need to kill the honour by trying to show off

Wilson
10-30-2015, 10:53 AM
Indeed I dont function with 3rd Person in real life, however in a game I do. I hardly ever use first person in most games I play, and when I do its only to aim better. And with this type a game I still think that the option should be there, either as optional thing on a server or as a hard setup.

Leifr
10-30-2015, 11:33 AM
You've bought into the game knowing that third person will never be implemented. Why is there an issue here?

BloodBeag
10-30-2015, 12:19 PM
You see in the video they released that when the order to form a lie was given, a magical line appeared on the ground making it very easy to form a line in first person. Also, with the freelook it is very easy to look around you and get better than just 'peripheral' and you want a realistic game so it would be contradictory to then want 3rd person.



did anyone see my signature, nobody is noticing it which is sadd

A. P. Hill
10-30-2015, 12:32 PM
You've bought into the game knowing that third person will never be implemented. Why is there an issue here?

Agreed 100 %.

I'm done with this conversation.

Jonny Powers
10-30-2015, 12:39 PM
Well, if there is no third person, a spectator option hasn't been officially mentioned. I would assume that this or some sort of other free-roaming camera would be a basic implementation (that can easily be disabled) which I would expect the game to have in some form.


did anyone see my signature, nobody is noticing it which is sadd

I did! Really interesting picture :D

Bravescot
10-30-2015, 12:57 PM
You've bought into the game knowing that third person will never be implemented. Why is there an issue here?

Well said sir! Huzzar!

Wilson
10-30-2015, 07:56 PM
This is the Ideas and Suggestion Thread, therefore it is my opinion that we have different camera options such as first and 3rd person. Go be assholes elsewere

A. P. Hill
10-30-2015, 08:53 PM
... did anyone see my signature, nobody is noticing it which is sadd

Yeah, I saw it. I didn't say anything because as far as I am concerned, it doesn't relate to the website and the topics being discussed.

In other words, it's not pertinent or relevant.

BloodBeag
10-31-2015, 09:02 AM
Yeah, I saw it. I didn't say anything because as far as I am concerned, it doesn't relate to the website and the topics being discussed.

In other words, it's not pertinent or relevant.

bitter old man

A. P. Hill
10-31-2015, 04:05 PM
We're having a laugh mate.....

Sorry Son, but the following quote indicates to me that this is far from having a laugh.


This is the Ideas and Suggestion Thread, therefore it is my opinion that we have different camera options such as first and 3rd person. Go be assholes elsewere


You've bought into the game knowing that third person will never be implemented. Why is there an issue here?

In all due Respect Wilson, because I'd hate for someone to leave this endeavor and miss out on an awesome ending.
But after your comment above, I have to say, You may want to follow the old saying of "Physician heal thyself." In other words follow your own advice.

From Day one the Developers have stated there will be no 3rd person in this endeavor. They will not change this. There will be free cameras, (nice for screen shots and all I suppose,) but your "insistence" of wanting, nay, "needing," 3rd person is a bit on the rude side. Leifr summed it up nicely in his quote that's highlighted.

Those of us here defending the developers are not the ones being the assholes as you so blatantly accuse. The problem may lie in the misguided effort that someone is insisting on having their way. Hoping to sway the developers into changing their minds. From their stance in the outset I don't see that happening. Up to now their programming has not provided for that, and to go back and appease those few who can not live without the cheat of 3rd person, is something the team does not have time, nor the resources to provide.

The developers said this endeavor is to be as realistic as possible, in order to be realistic, making it resemble as closely real life actions by the player is essential. As I have asked, and stated before, you live a 3D life daily and yet you function quite well without a 3rd person view of your life. Why does what you do in a computer simulation need to be any more different.

And one more final comment then I'm done, if 3rd person views are added then this effort truly becomes only a game. I do not want it to be a game.

Again, this is offered with all due respect Sir. But your inferring that we defending the intent of the developers are the ones being assholes, ... well that's just wrong. You need to man up and apologize to those you've just classified.

I look forward to seeing your positive and good response.

1331

TrustyJam
10-31-2015, 04:29 PM
Keep it civil or I'll have to lock the thread. It's fine having different preferences but please talk about those instead of go into the name calling business. :)

- Trusty

Willie Fisterbottom
10-31-2015, 04:33 PM
Sorry Son, but the following quote indicates to me that this is far from having a laugh.





In all due Respect Wilson, because I'd hate for someone to leave this endeavor and miss out on an awesome ending.
But after your comment above, I have to say, You may want to follow the old saying of "Physician heal thyself." In other words follow your own advice.

From Day one the Developers have stated there will be no 3rd person in this endeavor. They will not change this. There will be free cameras, (nice for screen shots and all I suppose,) but your "insistence" of wanting, nay, "needing," 3rd person is a bit on the rude side. Leifr summed it up nicely in his quote that's highlighted.

Those of us here defending the developers are not the ones being the assholes as you so blatantly accuse. The problem may lie in the misguided effort that someone is insisting on having their way. Hoping to sway the developers into changing their minds. From their stance in the outset I don't see that happening. Up to now their programming has not provided for that, and to go back and appease those few who can not live without the cheat of 3rd person, is something the team does not have time, nor the resources to provide.

The developers said this endeavor is to be as realistic as possible, in order to be realistic, making it resemble as closely real life actions by the player is essential. As I have asked, and stated before, you live a 3D life daily and yet you function quite well without a 3rd person view of your life. Why does what you do in a computer simulation need to be any more different.

And one more final comment then I'm done, if 3rd person views are added then this effort truly becomes only a game. I do not want it to be a game.

Again, this is offered with all due respect Sir. But your inferring that we defending the intent of the developers are the ones being assholes, ... well that's just wrong. You need to man up and apologize to those you've just classified.

I look forward to seeing your positive and good response.

1331

B-but why can't we just have some servers with first person and and some with the option to switch between 1st and 3rd, let the server owner decide. You would never have to play on a third person server just like he would never have to play on a 1st person only server if he didn't want to. Kinda like how most fps games have a hardcore and regular mode.

VictorFernandes
10-31-2015, 04:51 PM
B-but why can't we just have some servers with first person and and some with the option to switch between 1st and 3rd, let the server owner decide. You would never have to play on a third person server just like he would never have to play on a 1st person only server if he didn't want to. Kinda like how most fps games have a hardcore and regular mode.

Once and for all, the question isn't "why"!
Since the beginning, 3rd Person isn't an option so why keep insisting on having different servers mods? You are asking for a thing that is not implemented, which logic is that?

If it come to be an option then you can clearly beg for differents perspectives in different servers.

A. P. Hill
10-31-2015, 05:05 PM
bitter old man

Maybe to you Son, but I am quite happy, thank you very much. :)

Willie Fisterbottom
10-31-2015, 05:05 PM
Once and for all, the question isn't "why"!
Since the beginning, 3rd Person isn't an option so why keep insisting on having different servers mods? You are asking for a thing that is not implemented, which logic is that?

If it come to be an option then you can clearly beg for differents perspectives in different servers.

I know it's not planned, and the developers definitely have more important things to work on in the game. It's just i would like it and some others would like it too, although we are the minority. That being said it won't make or break whether i buy this game, just a convenience feature i'd like.

Wilson
11-01-2015, 03:51 AM
What gets me is how everyone gets tunnel vision when o the idea of anything other than first person is said. In regards to Mister AP Hill, sir you seem to think that 3rd Person is quote "a cheat", if that's what you think oh well for most other gamer's be they play console, computer ect... 1st/2nd and 3rd person view points are one of the most basic features typically found in video game's. And the little comment about why I called you guys assholes should be pretty obvious but to point it out, you guys completely shot my idea down without even so much as a consideration. So yes I called you a name, and I stand by it still.


And one more final comment then I'm done, if 3rd person views are added then this effort truly becomes only a game. I do not want it to be a game.

Computer Simulation as you put it, sounds a lot like a game to to me, which is what it is mate. Nothing more or less, a game. I think WoR will be an awesome one if it gets released.
I do not want it to be a game. I understand the sentiment here, but dude if you want real life go reenact or something. Repeat WoR is a "GAME".

Now as to the swaying of devs and all that jazz you mentioned, I simply put up my post so that they might consider the option, however I never said that they had to do it, just that they should do it for those of us who like that play style. Mount and Blade does this real well since you can switch back and forth.

Now I have great respect for all devs and staff of the WoR game, however if I'm going to pay almost $300 for something that hasn't even made yet, I would like to at least have my opinion on the table like some many others. Now for the final time on the Threads and Idea's Forum. I think we should either have the option or the ability to change camera view points such as the use of 3rd Person, be reassured I wont be adding anymore ideas or thoughts to the process since others seem to think their a cheat.


-Wilson

TrustyJam
11-01-2015, 04:01 AM
As I said previously you're perfectly allowed to have your own opinion. We're aware that part of the community wishes a third person option.

- Trusty

Wilson
11-01-2015, 04:43 AM
As I said previously you're perfectly allowed to have your own opinion. We're aware that part of the community wishes a third person option.

- Trusty

Thanks Trusty, that post was more towards Mister Hill. But thank you for replying.

-Wilson

Willie Fisterbottom
11-01-2015, 05:52 AM
Thanks Trusty, that post was more towards Mister Hill. But thank you for replying.

-Wilson

Hank Hill?

Wilson
11-01-2015, 08:08 AM
No A. P. Hill

Willie Fisterbottom
11-01-2015, 09:40 PM
Sorry Son, but the following quote indicates to me that this is far from having a laugh.





In all due Respect Wilson, because I'd hate for someone to leave this endeavor and miss out on an awesome ending.
But after your comment above, I have to say, You may want to follow the old saying of "Physician heal thyself." In other words follow your own advice.

From Day one the Developers have stated there will be no 3rd person in this endeavor. They will not change this. There will be free cameras, (nice for screen shots and all I suppose,) but your "insistence" of wanting, nay, "needing," 3rd person is a bit on the rude side. Leifr summed it up nicely in his quote that's highlighted.

Those of us here defending the developers are not the ones being the assholes as you so blatantly accuse. The problem may lie in the misguided effort that someone is insisting on having their way. Hoping to sway the developers into changing their minds. From their stance in the outset I don't see that happening. Up to now their programming has not provided for that, and to go back and appease those few who can not live without the cheat of 3rd person, is something the team does not have time, nor the resources to provide.

The developers said this endeavor is to be as realistic as possible, in order to be realistic, making it resemble as closely real life actions by the player is essential. As I have asked, and stated before, you live a 3D life daily and yet you function quite well without a 3rd person view of your life. Why does what you do in a computer simulation need to be any more different.

And one more final comment then I'm done, if 3rd person views are added then this effort truly becomes only a game. I do not want it to be a game.

Again, this is offered with all due respect Sir. But your inferring that we defending the intent of the developers are the ones being assholes, ... well that's just wrong. You need to man up and apologize to those you've just classified.

I look forward to seeing your positive and good response.

1331

Lol do you function in a 3d life using a mouse and keyboard tho?

A. P. Hill
11-01-2015, 09:52 PM
Lol do you function in a 3d life using a mouse and keyboard tho?

Probabaly more efficiently than others.

Bravescot
11-01-2015, 11:31 PM
Sorry Son, but the following quote indicates to me that this is far from having a laugh.
I was more talking about myself and Devmc99

Devmc99
11-02-2015, 01:05 AM
Jokes 4 life, m8

Damian
11-03-2015, 11:46 AM
I also would like a 3rd person option in the War of Rights. 3rd person games for me are more enjoyable and more fun for me.. because I get to see my awesome character and uniform.

Vincenzo21
11-04-2015, 04:14 AM
I would love to have 3rd person option in the game! If this game had 3rd person that would be really great, I know some people don't like it, but have it in the game and the server host could choose to allow it or not.

Revermen
01-15-2017, 06:20 AM
I am pro peripheral vision! (as in a massive field of view ((perhaps expandable vis a vis held button?))) In my experience in marching band we were taught to follow a moving formation with peripheral vision, we only looked left and right to clean a static formation, and then only in practice. In learning a show; we tried to move from mark to mark in the correct number of steps, in the time allotted, in march [pronounced mark] time (if the block was veeery basic). Every practice we got closer and closer to our marks. Heck, the different instrument sections competed with each other for supplementary-drill exemptions! The goal was to not need to dress after a check so you could learn how to find your mark with peripherals in a show. What fellow who takes pride in his formations wants a column of swiveling heads? It just doesn't look smart, and slobs don't intimidate the enemy! Further and more importantly being forced to look around at your formation instead of keeping your attention on the battle suppresses the players initiative!

Would anyone care to see a set up such as hold "b" to expand fov, and release to snap back to standard?

Lance Rawlings
01-15-2017, 08:07 AM
I am pro peripheral vision! (as in a massive field of view ((perhaps expandable vis a vis held button?))) In my experience in marching band we were taught to follow a moving formation with peripheral vision, we only looked left and right to clean a static formation, and then only in practice. In learning a show; we tried to move from mark to mark in the correct number of steps, in the time allotted, in march [pronounced mark] time (if the block was veeery basic). Every practice we got closer and closer to our marks. Heck, the different instrument sections competed with each other for supplementary-drill exemptions! The goal was to not need to dress after a check so you could learn how to find your mark with peripherals in a show. What fellow who takes pride in his formations wants a column of swiveling heads? It just doesn't look smart, and slobs don't intimidate the enemy! Further and more importantly being forced to look around at your formation instead of keeping your attention on the battle suppresses the players initiative!

Would anyone care to see a set up such as hold "b" to expand fov, and release to snap back to standard?

Yes, I don't think this is a bad idea, or possibly just increase the field of vision for everything. I agree that for good, no hassle drill you need peripheral vision. Obviously this would be hard to achieve with only one monitor, and most have resorted to the ALT key. But I find that it is nearly impossible to use the ALT key and make accurate inputs to correct maneuvers. Or to solve this possibly have a key that essentially allows a player to "grab his neighbor's sleeve" and lock onto him for better drill. I don't know if I like this idea 100%, but it may be the best option. Anyway, I think this has been discussed before, though I can't recall the response.

RhettVito
01-15-2017, 08:38 AM
Look guys 3rd person won't be in-game no matter how much you beg it's set in stone and it will not change ..... As for some of you just wanting 3rd Person to help with formations I can understand that to an extent. The first person experience will improve give the devs time to work on the game in that time the net code and servers will improve. Everything will work out in 1st person just grab an infantry manual such as Casey's or Hardee's study hard I can ensure that you and your unit will be fine. Just my thought on this...

Legion
01-15-2017, 12:45 PM
I am pro peripheral vision! (as in a massive field of view ((perhaps expandable vis a vis held button?))) In my experience in marching band we were taught to follow a moving formation with peripheral vision, we only looked left and right to clean a static formation, and then only in practice. In learning a show; we tried to move from mark to mark in the correct number of steps, in the time allotted, in march [pronounced mark] time (if the block was veeery basic). Every practice we got closer and closer to our marks. Heck, the different instrument sections competed with each other for supplementary-drill exemptions! The goal was to not need to dress after a check so you could learn how to find your mark with peripherals in a show. What fellow who takes pride in his formations wants a column of swiveling heads? It just doesn't look smart, and slobs don't intimidate the enemy! Further and more importantly being forced to look around at your formation instead of keeping your attention on the battle suppresses the players initiative!

Would anyone care to see a set up such as hold "b" to expand fov, and release to snap back to standard?

I like this, imo it's the best option without having to go 3rd person.

BloodBeag
01-15-2017, 12:52 PM
It's very easy to get into lines properly in mount and blade in first person so i don't see why it would be different in this game really.

Rithal
01-15-2017, 02:29 PM
Look guys 3rd person won't be in-game no matter how much you beg it's set in stone and it will not change ..... As for some of you just wanting 3rd Person to help with formations I can understand that to an extent. The first person experience will improve give the devs time to work on the game in that time the net code and servers will improve. Everything will work out in 1st person just grab an infantry manual such as Casey's or Hardee's study hard I can ensure that you and your unit will be fine. Just my thought on this...

If I understood them correctly, Reverman and Lance Rawlings were advocating for a button that could temporarily increase the player's field of view in first person to simulate peripheral vision, and not a full third person mode.


It's very easy to get into lines properly in mount and blade in first person so i don't see why it would be different in this game really.

While I do agree that the first person point of view should be the only viewpoint in the game, it does make things difficult sometimes. You gave the example of mount and blade, and I totally agree that advancing in column formation is relatively easy, as it is in War of Rights. However the trouble begins when a unit tries to advance in a line of battle. This is true in both War of Rights and Mount and Blade. There is a need to work around this somehow, however I'm not arguing for the existence of third person in WoR by any means...

salad
01-15-2017, 10:25 PM
We should add drones in the game XDDXXDXXDXDXDXXXDXXDXXDXDXDDXXXXXDDDD

Lance Rawlings
01-16-2017, 12:00 AM
Yes, I am not supporting a 3rd person view here, simply something to increase our vision and/or have a semi-locking mechanic to keep our dress in ranks. And if you play a Mount & Blade style of tactics then you probably only have one rank, so yes it is easy to move as a column. But if you are ding the historically accurate two ranks or a column of fours then keeping your dress is nearly impossible. And as has already been mentioned by Rithal, it doesn't matter how many ranks you have, it is still very difficult even with one rank to move in line of battle. It will be interesting to see what can be done to help with this.

TrustyJam
01-16-2017, 12:15 AM
Yes, I am not supporting a 3rd person view here, simply something to increase our vision and/or have a semi-locking mechanic to keep our dress in ranks. And if you play a Mount & Blade style of tactics then you probably only have one rank, so yes it is easy to move as a column. But if you are ding the historically accurate two ranks or a column of fours then keeping your dress is nearly impossible. And as has already been mentioned by Rithal, it doesn't matter how many ranks you have, it is still very difficult even with one rank to move in line of battle. It will be interesting to see what can be done to help with this.

An FOV slider is going to be introduced in the next update - we're also working on other means to help formations out.

- Trusty

Lance Rawlings
01-16-2017, 12:26 AM
An FOV slider is going to be introduced in the next update - we're also working on other means to help formations out.

- Trusty

That's awesome and good to hear! Thanks for the response.

FancyPants
01-17-2017, 08:35 AM
Need 3rd person reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeee
5311

Kyle422
01-17-2017, 02:48 PM
Nah, 3rd person isn't needed. This isn't mount and blade. Thanks for the info trusty.

- Kyle

RhettVito
01-17-2017, 07:02 PM
An FOV slider is going to be introduced in the next update - we're also working on other means to help formations out.

- Trusty

Thank you man we needed that !!! :)

michaelsmithern
01-18-2017, 03:10 AM
Nah, 3rd person isn't needed. This isn't mount and blade. Thanks for the info trusty.

- Kyle

While i wouldn't mind a third person, i will agree it's not entirely necessary and wouldn't be useful for combat, especially considering you actually need to aim down the sights instead of having a circle or dots where the bullet may or may not land

Kyle422
01-18-2017, 01:48 PM
While i wouldn't mind a third person, i will agree it's not entirely necessary and wouldn't be useful for combat, especially considering you actually need to aim down the sights instead of having a circle or dots where the bullet may or may not land

Exactly which makes 3rd person pointless. I'm here for the historical and realism aspect of the game.

-Kyle

A. P. Hill
01-18-2017, 06:38 PM
Aside from some good information provided by Trusty, I consider this thread pointless. ;)