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Thread: Election

  1. #331

    USA General of the Army

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    Ironsides that is really poor behaviour on your behalf. You came into this thread, stared up an argument and then run off in a childish manner. If you're going to behave like this in future discussions you will be bared from them as the moderating team will be unable to trust you to act maturely and reasonably.

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  2. #332

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    Quote Originally Posted by IRONSIDES View Post
    What the hell did I just read, LOL?
    I'm guessing that was meant as an insult, in which case, poor show.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fearless Hussar View Post
    Very, very, very, very long block of text.
















    About this long, ish.
    Could we get a tl;dr on that? Or a version with paragraphs?

  3. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisM View Post
    Paragraphs. Start using them.

    Comparing slavery or 'human property' to working against low wages in industry is failing to understand the sheer madness of the entire concept of slavery: That you, legally, own someone. There is no fate worse then slavery but death. Oh sure, it's no fun having a boss take advantage of you because you have nothing to sell but your labour (If you'll excuse me the Marxist rhetoric), but at least he doesn't legally own you.

    The Germans argueably suffered the least from anti-immigration feelings, as most of them were protestant. I was talking more specifically about Catholics.

    If you say that not all soldiers in the southern army fought to keep slaves, then I agree. But to say that slavery was not the defining reason for the southern states to secede unilaterally, then you are simply fooling yourself. Ideology and cultural feelings are nice, but they don't put bread on your table, and they're not worth fighting a war over. Had they never seceded, it's very unlikely that slavery had been abolished in 1865 as happened historically. Lincoln did not feel the president had the authority to free the slaves, which is why he never did so.
    First of all i am very sorry for the paragraph thing it was just a bit late and i didnt want to spend a lot of time writing this.
    Second dont say that i said that slavery was not a main reason for SECESSION. If you read everything i said(i know boring but you dont get the whole point otherwise) i actually admit everywhere that slavery was the most important states right the Southern states seceded for. What i do is a division between casus belli, reasons to fight for the war and reasons for the Southern secession they are 3different things like i have already mentioned.
    Third i am also sorry about the slavery and factory worker comparison but i didnt want to mean that one or the other was a lot better than the other. All i did is saying that the living conditions that they faced were terrible in both cases as to deny the argument that south= very bad guys owning slaves and North= good guys that gave the slaves their freedom. It is right as to the slave owning and by the way i have read a few things(not much so dont expect any details on that) and i know that the lives of the slaves were so bad that terrible isnt even a fitting Word. But living conditions for a worker in a factory in an Industrial area were from what i know was worse(and i rly didnt want to say a lot worse thats why i added slightly). Of course thats from the average Picture of an Industrial area i have of that century from central and Western europe so i dont know exactly what was going on in the us but i guess(correct me if i am mistaken i have totally no problem with that) that it didnt have a big difference. I do agree workers did have (partial) freedom but as i said their conditions were at least equally terrible. You mention that worse than slavery is death then well i give you that workers in factories would often die during work(especially people working in extremely harsh conditions like in mines). To cut a long story short an average worker had more Rights than a slave that had none but they were facing extremely deadly conditions in both cases.
    Fourth i disagree with you saying the germans suffered the least from anti-immigration feellings during the war. They were thought as cowards and useless despite their religion. Of course thats mainly due to them being in many bad positions during the war(i really mean battlefield positions).
    Fifth i am not certain on the how but in my mind it would be possible to end slavery without splitting the Union and causing a 4year bloodbath of nearly 1m americans. After all i am told that there were 2 Countries called United kingdom and france that banned slavery(i wont argue if it took practical action cause it didnt as in the us after the war) without having a gruesome Civil war. I greatly blame lincoln on this one as well. Hell you have him as a hero for keeping the nation United whereas he fought a Civil war which i think he HAD to prevent it was his Duty as president of the us after all. General Grant said once 'There was never a time when, in my opinion, some way could not be found to prevent the drawing of the sword.'. I will stick to that last one and say that war and most probably secession as well could have been prevented. Well you are right in saying that slavery wouldnt have been abolished in 1865(you are saying that knowing that most people WHO were racist before that time remained racist and sheer proof is that there are racist people in the us today as well if it was totally abolished with the meaning of vanishing there wouldnt be any.) but it might have been abolished soon after that considering that the World economy which was now anti-slavery at most would have not accepted the still slave holding us at least not for long(same thing if the south gained independence they would be forced to abolish slavery anyway). After all if you didnt split the Union on the intention of freeing the slaves but freeing them without causing this chaos you might not have so many racist people today(cause there wouldnt be so much of North and south with the south being thought as mostly slaveholding which was true but people would not think so much about it as it would have been a bad but ended past condition).
    Sixth (though i think i already mentioned it) i didnt by any means say that ideology and Cultural feeling are worth fighting a war over. They are not and they have been not and will be not be a reason to fight a war over. Thats obvious and i do really believe it. It is a foolish thing a claim that you fight a war against the e.g. injustice of another nation. The Real patriotic wars have been very few and they were never one nation against another nation but mostly revolutions(i have to say the Hellenic revolution of 1821 here. it was patriotic untill we decided to fight against each other about political power.).

  4. #334

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    Quote Originally Posted by IRONSIDES View Post
    What the hell did I just read, LOL?
    Quote Originally Posted by FakeMessiah27 View Post
    I'm guessing that was meant as an insult, in which case, poor show.
    I believe it was...

    Not quite sure what you don't understand, so take another look.



  5. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by FakeMessiah27 View Post
    I'm guessing that was meant as an insult, in which case, poor show.



    Could we get a tl;dr on that? Or a version with paragraphs?
    updated version has sth like paragraphs(i wouldnt put paragraphs on those places if i intended it to have paragraphs but i also lack the time for a lot of editing.)

  6. #336
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    God. Fucking kill me now. I really hope we have a lot of Mavericks on December 19th.
    GG America, you had a good run. Cant wait to be slaves of the New Soviet Empire.

  7. #337

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    That's amazing, he hasn't even taken office and has already destroyed the Earth's climate. Talk about overachieving.

    This is the sort of mass hysteria that is keeping everyone worked up, we have no idea what the man is going to do once he assumes office. We also don't know if any of what he plans to do will make it through Congress, though we can thank Mr. Obama for his extensions of Executive Power to circumvent that little problem. I just feel like everyone has already crowned him as the next Hitler and he hasn't even been formally made President.

    And this whole clean coal thing, Obama was pushing that way back when he was running for office. He got lobbied to come out against it, just like he got lobbied on the ACA, no one criticized him then. Now it's the devil in disguise. What's changed? It's like everyone is so dead set on hating the man that no one wants to see reason anymore.
    3 points:

    a)He doesn't need to be president justt to desroy the earth, his factorys will do it for him...
    b)As far as i know (which might not be far but short) there doesn't exist "clean coal", but i might be wrong a picture or short description of it would help.
    c)I do not compare him to Hitler, actually i think his policies are OK exept his climate policy, because it WILL be bad. Also i would like to ask if your grand children deserve to grow up in year 20 40/50 in a world without polarbears, forests and the ability to eat an ice cream without it melting in 30 seconds, would you really like that????

    *I do NOT wish to hurt anyone with this post.






    Cpl. George Anthony
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