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Thread: Reloading - An active mechanic?

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  1. #1

    Reloading - An active mechanic?

    An idea that I had to help make the long reloading times for (rifled) muskets and artillery more interesting was to incorporate some sort of active reload system, like what might be found in Gears of War or the more obscure Darkest of Days. In case you've never played a game with such a mechanic, a quick explanation would be that during a reload, the reload button can be pressed again during a certain period of time within that reload to cancel it early and thus save time - though in exchange, attempting to do so when not within that time period will cause the quick reload to fail and the process to overall take even longer. In the example below, the green area of the circle represents the quick-reload area while the thinner circle represents the normal reload time - and the time where a quick reload will fail.

    630px-Darkestofdays_mp34-3.jpg

    So, why incorporate this concept into War of Rights?


    a) It is realistic (to the best of my knowledge). As soldiers grow more familiar with their weapon, it makes sense that they would be able to reload it faster and therefore be capable of putting down more shots downrange. In fact, I recall that drills would often be held solely dedicated to reloading, to make sure that members of a regiment would be able to fire at a speed suitable for combat - shouldn't the same be reflected in-game?

    b) It's more interesting, and creates a higher skill ceiling. Frankly, while reloading members of a regiment have little to do beyond survey the battlefield and wait for their reload to be done - an active reload gives them something to do and master during those many periods where they don't have a shot to put downrange. Plus it may even distract them a little, like what happened historically.

    So, how do I believe this concept should work in War of Rights?


    I believe that it could work on one of two ways. The first would be to do it exactly the way these example games do - have one overall reload period, which can be cut off by a skillful active reload. If the devs didn't want to make the reload system too involved, this could definitely be a way to go to balance ease-of-play while still having something to do while reloading.

    On the other hand, the reload could also be split into several parts based on various steps - for example, putting the musket ball into the rifle could be one step, while taking out the ramrod and pushing it in could be the next - therefore reflecting the multi-step process more accurately. Maybe it'd be a bit much for every reload, but it would definitely give a chance for skilled reloaders to make a difference in their own performance.

    So, what do guys think? Should the game have active reload, and if so what type should it use?

  2. #2

    USA Lieutenant General

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    Quote Originally Posted by Insurance Salesman View Post
    An idea that I had to help make the long reloading times for (rifled) muskets and artillery more interesting was to incorporate some sort of active reload system, like what might be found in Gears of War or the more obscure Darkest of Days. In case you've never played a game with such a mechanic, a quick explanation would be that during a reload, the reload button can be pressed again during a certain period of time within that reload to cancel it early and thus save time - though in exchange, attempting to do so when not within that time period will cause the quick reload to fail and the process to overall take even longer. In the example below, the green area of the circle represents the quick-reload area while the thinner circle represents the normal reload time - and the time where a quick reload will fail.

    630px-Darkestofdays_mp34-3.jpg

    So, why incorporate this concept into War of Rights?


    a) It is realistic (to the best of my knowledge). As soldiers grow more familiar with their weapon, it makes sense that they would be able to reload it faster and therefore be capable of putting down more shots downrange. In fact, I recall that drills would often be held solely dedicated to reloading, to make sure that members of a regiment would be able to fire at a speed suitable for combat - shouldn't the same be reflected in-game?

    b) It's more interesting, and creates a higher skill ceiling. Frankly, while reloading members of a regiment have little to do beyond survey the battlefield and wait for their reload to be done - an active reload gives them something to do and master during those many periods where they don't have a shot to put downrange. Plus it may even distract them a little, like what happened historically.

    So, how do I believe this concept should work in War of Rights?


    I believe that it could work on one of two ways. The first would be to do it exactly the way these example games do - have one overall reload period, which can be cut off by a skillful active reload. If the devs didn't want to make the reload system too involved, this could definitely be a way to go to balance ease-of-play while still having something to do while reloading.

    On the other hand, the reload could also be split into several parts based on various steps - for example, putting the musket ball into the rifle could be one step, while taking out the ramrod and pushing it in could be the next - therefore reflecting the multi-step process more accurately. Maybe it'd be a bit much for every reload, but it would definitely give a chance for skilled reloaders to make a difference in their own performance.

    So, what do guys think? Should the game have active reload, and if so what type should it use?
    personally on the topic of A. as a battle rages you would probably get slower. not faster. i remember that game as it was fun it was very run and gun aslong as the reload speeds are close to the actually speed it would take someone i wouldnt mind waiting as it would add a level of suspense ass u worrie if you will be the one hit next
    http://www.warofrightsforum.com/showthread.php?761-28th-Regiment-Massachusetts-Volunteer-Infantry-Company-A

  3. #3
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Thank you for your suggestion.

    We have discussed something similar to it a few times internally. We've always ended up with the same conclusion though; The novelty quickly wears off and you're stuck with essentially a quick time event over and over again. I have played both Gears & Darkest of Days and I don't personally think the reload QTE's brought anything interesting to the table. We'd much rather want to look at something such as suppression, amount of stamina, amount of morale have an effect on reload speeds.

    - Trusty

  4. #4

    USA General of the Army

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    Not to mention, using multiple key stroke while possibly fun and interesting, may eventually limit key strokes available for other emotes.


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  6. #6

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    Compleetly useless to the topic.
    It is a smoothbore flintlock. Not a weapon that was used to any large extent during the civil war.
    His weapon handling is poor and he do things in a way that would not work in a proper two rank formation.
    (and not correct to the weapon or the civil war)

    There is no information about the powder charge or the caliber of the round he use.
    Thomas Bernstorff Aagaard

  7. #7
    75 caliber musket
    69 caliber bullet
    It is standard for all military muskets of the 18th century.
    Springfield Model 1842 - could probably use a similar animation.
    Moreover, some units during the Civil War were fully armed with M1842.

  8. #8

    USA Sergeant

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooL View Post
    75 caliber musket
    69 caliber bullet
    It is standard for all military muskets of the 18th century.
    Springfield Model 1842 - could probably use a similar animation.
    Moreover, some units during the Civil War were fully armed with M1842.
    The M1842 used during the war was not a flintlock but a percussionlock.

    There is no information about the size of the bullet in the clip. So we don't know if he used a 69caliber or something smaller.
    There is no information if the weapon was clean before he did it.
    There is no information if he is using an original or replica. (but I would think it is a replica)
    There is no information on how much powder he use.
    It don't tell us how much lower the velocity is. compared to loading it correctly. (but Iam sure it is lower)


    There are some youtube channels about the use of military blackpowder firearms where they do give sufficient information that I think they can be usefull in debating things like this.
    (britishmuzzleloaders and capandball)

    But this clip is not one of them.
    Thomas Bernstorff Aagaard

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas aagaard View Post
    The M1842 used during the war was not a flintlock but a percussionlock.

    There is no information about the size of the bullet in the clip. So we don't know if he used a 69caliber or something smaller.
    There is no information if the weapon was clean before he did it.
    There is no information if he is using an original or replica. (but I would think it is a replica)
    There is no information on how much powder he use.
    It don't tell us how much lower the velocity is. compared to loading it correctly. (but Iam sure it is lower)


    There are some youtube channels about the use of military blackpowder firearms where they do give sufficient information that I think they can be usefull in debating things like this.
    (britishmuzzleloaders and capandball)

    But this clip is not one of them.
    In the commentary he wrote that shoots standard 69 caliber bullet and a standard charge.
    For you, is a historic discovery that the round bullet was smaller caliber barrel? Then I advise you to study materiel, and then to enter into dialogue.
    Musket can be recharged without cleaning rod and used it in an emergency. As evidenced by historical sources and modern renovation. Here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvc86ggLUY4
    As for your questions ballista advise you to read it here: DAVID P MILLER Ballistics of 17th Century Muskets

  10. #10

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    I like that you went out and did the research, however Thomas is correct, the firearm used in the video is significantly easier to load as it is a smoothbore, and he probably used a small caliber ball. I have shot both the Brown Bess and Civil War firearms and this is indeed the case. It can get very tricky reloading a rifle, flintlock or percussion. Tighter the round, more accurate the shot (typically).

    Great efforts, though!
    To the Colors!

    Captain Lance Rawlings
    Company K, 38th North Carolina, Pender's Brigade, A.P. Hill's Division, Jackson's Corps, Army of Northern Virginia
    http://www.warofrightsforum.com/show...lina-Boys-quot


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