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Thread: This day in the Civil War.

  1. #21

    USA General of the Army

    A. P. Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    In Maryland State Near to both Antietam and Gettysburg, Harper's Ferry et al.
    While I appreciate you boy's opinions and such, this thread is about the American Civil War, not modern day politics. Please respect that and develop a thread for your political discussion in the "OFF TOPICS" forum. Leave this for civil war related historical discussions please.

  2. #22

    USA Sergeant

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    May 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by Slimbizza View Post
    I guess that's where I disagree with you sir. The federal government has very very limited scope. Its job is is defense from outside aggression, international diplomacy and trade. Like modern federal government overreaches like healthcare, the federal government grossly infringed upon the state's rights of the confederate states. So yes, in contemporary America, the confederacy is historically a champion of states rights. I mean after all, I wouldn't want the state I live in to have states rights resembling that with modern day commiefornia.
    You called California 'commiefornia'. You pretty much have zero argument.

  3. #23

    USA 1st Lieutenant

    Dman979's Avatar
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    Mar 2017
    I'm personally curious how this went from talking about Jackson's death to a discussion about the role of Federal and state governments in the modern United States.


  4. #24

    CSA Lieutenant General

    dmurray6's Avatar
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    Apr 2016
    Eldersburg, MD
    Quote Originally Posted by A. P. Hill View Post

    Wrong on your part, Your comment about "Plenty of places a man can walk where artillery can't go.", c'mon you're smarter than that. IF you honestly think that horse drawn artillery couldn't go in many of the same locations that a man can set foot then I don't want you as my artillery chief. If you closely examine many maps of the day, you will find that artillery is positioned in places where there are no roads to access the position ... how did that happen?

    Have you been to Gettysburg at all? Have you read any period accounts? There were no roads and a hell of a lot of rocks all over the round tops, and yet somehow the union forces were able to get artillery to the top of those hills ...

    It's called field artillery for a reason.
    Study of battlefields in western Virginia would also be great examples to support this sentiment. I've personally driven the battlefields of Rich and Cheat Mountains as well as Camp Allegheny, all of which absolutely suck in a 4x4 vehicle. Part of each of those battlefields utilize original portions of the Staunton-Parkersburg Turnpike which was surveyed and engineered by Claudius Crozet in the 1820s, a Frenchman who served under Napoleon. The original portions of the turnpike is still at best, crushed gravel, in some places, still dirt. These are the portions that the modern day Route 250 abandoned in favor of better routes to pave. Just a little reading about expansion of the road systems into the mountainous regions of western Virginia in the 1820's would explain how steep the terrains were, as exampled by this quote:

    "Crozet settled on a route that passed west of Staunton through the tiny village of Monterey, in Highland County. Virginia's least-populated county, it is called "Virginia's Switzerland," in reference to the steep mountains and valleys."

    By the way, my ancestors (and my Mother) were all from Monterey, I've spent my life going to and from this town. I can attest to the "Little Switzerland" name personally.

    Now, consider that the Battle of Cheat Mountain, Rich Mountain, and Camp Allegheny (to name a few) required both the Federal and Confederate Armies to traverse these terrains, and there is plenty of reference to artillery batteries present at such battles. Four Union artillery batteries and one Confederate artillery battery was present at Rich Mountain. I would suggest a quick look at this following map to give a representation of the mountainous region in the area. Rich Mountain can be located on the map just west of the red star that labels Cheat Mountain at the top left of the map, beneath the map label. I realize that this is not a topography map of the mountains, but I just wanted to show a reference to the quantity of mountains in the region. I'm fairly sure the "Little Switzerland" analogy should prove the description of the terrain.

    Having personally traveled and tracked the Confederate path of retreat in 1861, from Phillipi, WV, south through Beverly, Huttonsville, Bartow, Hightown, and finally into Monterey and onward to Staunton, I drove 16 hours and stopped at each Battlefield and Historical placard along the way. Not to mention driving off the beaten path where I wouldn't recommend a non 4x4 vehicle try to reach. Hitting Rich Mountain Battlefield, Cheat Mountain Summit Fort (Fort Milroy), Camp Allegheny, and Camp Bartow. To think these soldiers marched and traversed these terrains with artillery is mind boggling. Check out this page about Cheat Mountain and its topographic's affect on the weather.

    There is a brief paragraph about Cheat Mountain and the Civil War period. Here's the last portion of that Civil War section:

    "Cheat Summit Fort (Fort Milroy) was occupied from July 16, 1861 until April 1862 when it was abandoned due to extremes of weather as well as strategic developments."

    Here's a cute little story about the Postmasters in the region that sums up the frustrations of the terrain:"

    "The Trotter brothers had the contract to deliver mail from Staunton, Virginia to Parkersburg, West Virginia. After several complaints about their sporadic service, the Postmaster General sent a reprimand from his cozy little office in Washington, D.C. The brothers had no doubt received some of these complaints in person and this letter was just about the last straw. They responded to the Postmaster's letter, "If you knock the gable end of Hell out and back it up against Cheat Mountain and rain fire and brimstone for forty days and forty nights, it won't melt the snow enough to get your damned mail through on time." The Trotters never heard the Postmaster complain again." -This was circa 1855.

    And I can honestly say, these areas make the undulating terrain of Gettysburg look like ant hills. If they got artillery up on Rich and Cheat Mountains, there wasn't anyplace in Gettysburg they couldn't have also gotten them.

    Here is some information on the Staunton-Parkersburg Turnpike, that describes the region in which road expansion was desired, give it a brief read, it talks about the terrain.
    Last edited by dmurray6; 05-22-2017 at 03:34 AM.
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