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Thread: Marksmanship and Numbers

  1. #31

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    had our usual monday nite skirm and the inconsistency of the these rifles is just getting hard to swallow hit one shot at 20yds or so an miss the next 2 at about the same distance but can hit a running target at about 100yds make no sense at all
    the swaying and the inconsistency of these rifles are just bad no other words for it, its almost like there is a dice roll for you to hit that is the algorithm they are using
    these guns are so much more accurate than they are in game and it doesnt reward the good shots thats the problem i see please fix these rifles accuracy because it right now it like playing a dice roll every time we shoot

  2. #32

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    I had a few instances last night that I know I hit my target as I was maybe 15-20 yds away and my opponent didn't go down, or at least I was convinced at the time I did hitting the torso both times. One of the instances it was an officer and he proceeded to shoot and kill me with his pistol a few seconds later and that didn't feel good. Then I think it's possible I just wounded him, and maybe it wasn't a clean hit? I don't know. I'm going to monitor this more and maybe next time I can have more specifics such as musket type.
    Last edited by Shiloh; 12-12-2017 at 05:03 PM.

  3. #33
    The swaying is fine. What I don't like is how it is incredibly predictable. It seems to follow the same pattern so all you have to do is remember the pattern. It should be different levels based on your fatigue.

    I'm all about more shooting than killing. But this isn't that. This is "I have to take my time to make every shot count or my existence is completely worthless on this team."

    Fences are way too damn good at blocking bullets. when they shouldn't be. If they were as good as they are in this game in real life then "Picket's Charge" would have just stopped at the Emmitsburg road and they'd have gone into trench warfare for a month. Split rail fences are basically walls in this game. Who even knows where the bullets go to around them? If someone's near the upright posts you may as well not even take the shot. Their bullets probably aren't counting either so who cares. They seem to get sucked up into some other dimension if I fire near those uprights. We can shoot at each other all day. I have been hit up to 3 times by a fence. I feel like the spent bullets need to do more damage. Implement a "knockdown" or a "stagger" system so you at least know you wounded someone.
    Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 12-13-2017 at 12:29 AM.

  4. #34

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    That's true
    11th Mississippi Company F "Noxubee Rifles"


    Sgt. "Sixer" Sidney

    https://youtu.be/nN3zlOZtUrQ?t=14m26s

  5. #35
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    It's a surprise that in a game aiming for realism that weapon sway is in. Having been both a Royal Marine & a re-enactor I've never experienced this with a weapon aimed from the shoulder - ever. The thing to keep in mind is that to TEST weapons in game then you should really have two formed lines, at around one hundred yards apart, and use volley fire. These weapons were effective when fired by massed ranks at massed targets & if you doubt just exactly how inaccurate these weapon were against a single target then there are plenty of range fire demo's on youtube that will prove it.

  6. #36
    Community Manager, WoR-Dev Hinkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sox View Post
    It's a surprise that in a game aiming for realism that weapon sway is in. Having been both a Royal Marine & a re-enactor I've never experienced this with a weapon aimed from the shoulder - ever. The thing to keep in mind is that to TEST weapons in game then you should really have two formed lines, at around one hundred yards apart, and use volley fire. These weapons were effective when fired by massed ranks at massed targets & if you doubt just exactly how inaccurate these weapon were against a single target then there are plenty of range fire demo's on youtube that will prove it.
    Games are not able to display the effect of stress and fear of a real battle. The weapon sway is one element to add such effects into the game.
    If you would be able to aim without any sway, the game would be to deadly and it would be impossible to form lines and hold them.

    So the sway is one way to show the stress and fear of your soldier, during a deadly battle. Besides that, its a design element to be able to form up and fight in lines
    Last edited by Hinkel; 12-23-2017 at 05:53 PM.

  7. #37
    For pete's sake the sway isn't even that bad. Ever been on a ruck march with said rifle? I'm not talking crawling out of bed and voluntarily going out bare chested with a heavy pack to show off to the ladies I mean dog-weary, pushed to your limits. So much of warfare is being pushed to your limits in order to gain a critical advantage over the enemy. One has to admire a guy like John Reynolds letting his 1st division sleep in just miles from Buford's cavalry troopers trying to delay at Gettysburg. It has a huuuuggee effect on your ability to hold a rifle steady. The kneeling is a terribly uncomfortable position to hold a rifle for long periods of time, try it out -not on the carpet either. Running (like we all do to get to the action) in this game and holding a rifle steady? Forget it. The smart officers had their guys drop their packs and you know losing that would mean the world to these guys.

    It should exactly be tied to these things: your fatigue and the amount of fire you've been under. The effects should be subtle and increase sway. The fear effects should have a start base from the adrenaline (that doesn't exist on the training map) and increase from there and recover from that (if you let it). Fear effects should go beyond shaking and sway if you want to have a realistic game and add purpose to firefights (see the attached chart on fear-induced heart rate) because that's how combat works. Fear dominates the entire show. You shouldn't have to play a tactical strategy game to see that modeled. It's not like none of this is known or studied it's just largely ignored out of concern of playability while the same can said about making a game pure hit/miss mechanics with shooting rather than almost every bullet fired towards an enemy having some effect.

    Heck, if the games gonna go with this flag bearer/line respawn mechanic then the spawnees aught to have a similar average level of both penalties when they spawn on the flag as the guys they're spawning with. Your rifle also needs to shake more when under fire. Quite frankly it's like shooting on a range at times after the initial sway in this game and that's just not realistic. Real distorted vision, blurriness, tunnel vision building. Distorted audio. Not Hollywood effects made for a movie or game trailer. Subtle things that tell you that you need to pull back and recover for a few minutes for. If they'd fix the darn ballistics (I feel like the patch may have presented improvements?) and make fences less than nearly impervious (which they still are) then we'd have room to impede shooting realistically further with a purpose not just with a standard initial sway that the reenactors complain they've never seen standing on a parade ground having a good time.


    The game should do more to implement fear and adrenaline as a negative towards the player's performance when under fire.

    rnl2.jpg
    Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 12-23-2017 at 06:25 PM.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    For pete's sake the sway isn't even that bad. Ever been on a ruck march with said rifle? I'm not talking crawling out of bed and voluntarily going out bare chested with a heavy pack to show off to the ladies I mean dog-weary, pushed to your limits. So much of warfare is being pushed to your limits in order to gain a critical advantage over the enemy. One has to admire a guy like John Reynolds letting his 1st division sleep in just miles from Buford's cavalry troopers trying to delay at Gettysburg. It has a huuuuggee effect on your ability to hold a rifle steady. The kneeling is a terribly uncomfortable position to hold a rifle for long periods of time, try it out -not on the carpet either. Running (like we all do to get to the action) in this game and holding a rifle steady? Forget it. The smart officers had their guys drop their packs and you know losing that would mean the world to these guys.

    It should exactly be tied to these things: your fatigue and the amount of fire you've been under. The effects should be subtle and increase sway. The fear effects should have a start base from the adrenaline (that doesn't exist on the training map) and increase from there and recover from that (if you let it). Fear effects should go beyond shaking and sway if you want to have a realistic game and add purpose to firefights (see the attached chart on fear-induced heart rate) because that's how combat works. Fear dominates the entire show. You shouldn't have to play a tactical strategy game to see that modeled. It's not like none of this is known or studied it's just largely ignored out of concern of playability while the same can said about making a game pure hit/miss mechanics with shooting rather than almost every bullet fired towards an enemy having some effect.

    Heck, if the games gonna go with this flag bearer/line respawn mechanic then the spawnees aught to have a similar average level of both penalties when they spawn on the flag as the guys they're spawning with. Your rifle also needs to shake more when under fire. Quite frankly it's like shooting on a range at times after the initial sway in this game and that's just not realistic. Real distorted vision, blurriness, tunnel vision building. Distorted audio. Not Hollywood effects made for a movie or game trailer. Subtle things that tell you that you need to pull back and recover for a few minutes for. If they'd fix the darn ballistics (I feel like the patch may have presented improvements?) and make fences less than nearly impervious (which they still are) then we'd have room to impede shooting realistically further with a purpose not just with a standard initial sway that the reenactors complain they've never seen standing on a parade ground having a good time.


    The game should do more to implement fear and adrenaline as a negative towards the player's performance when under fire.

    rnl2.jpg
    My only issue with the sway is how aggressive it is even when you haven't been running or exerting yourself, it makes no sense and feels strange. Otherwise, if you've been double-quicking for a while or sprinted for more than 15 seconds, I am okay with it, and it makes perfect sense. Regarding being under fire though, I think some increased sway coupled with a bit of shaking would add some depth and realism to it. Although, you do not want three or four shots near your guy to cause him to have an aneurism and stroke or have a heart attack from fear.

    Artillery strikes affecting your person needs to be worked on also. I do not think many people can just shake off an artillery barrage impacting right next to them multiple times after a few seconds, no matter how tough they are. I think some more prolonged effects such as sway or some hearing impairment, not too much though, for maybe a minute or so would be better. Hopefully, though, we would see a slight reduciton in artillery strike probability so this effect would not become an extreme nuisance.

    The best way to do something like this is to have many smaller things add to one grander effect instead of many large things try to provide one effect, it seems overdone or poorly done.
    Last edited by McMuffin; 12-23-2017 at 10:45 PM.
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  9. #39
    Sox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    Ever been on a ruck march with said rifle? I'm not talking crawling out of bed and voluntarily going out bare chested with a heavy pack to show off to the ladies I mean dog-weary, pushed to your limits.rnl2.jpg
    I've been through basic training & RMC training, so yes lol

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