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Thread: Officers, Officer Rambos...

  1. #1

    Officers, Officer Rambos...



    The fact is that an officer can clear out vital areas on his own in many cases is ridiculous. It doesn't matter what the ticket cost of his personal loss. If he breaks through a defense in one place himself and causes a huge distraction then he did his job. The team not using their officers as close range rambos is not competing right. In what historical situation did this happen in the American Civil War? Where are the accounts of "As we closed in to the enemy line we saw a number of officers and we targeted them quickly for fear of their deadly pistols." Officers should get reloads, it's just silly not to give them reloads. But they need to lose something first...

    On my morale thread (Morale thread 2.0 coming some day soon), I mentioned "autosurrender" as the most extreme solution to lone wolves in close proximity to larger numbers of enemies (3:1 - 4:1). I now believe more than ever that this is a totally suitable and realistic solution to dealing with these rambo officers and rambos in general. The fact that an officer has a pistol should be an aside to his role. Any player on either team caught in close quarters and outnumbered 3:1 should face a by-the-second chance of autosurrendering, a "missing" casualty who puts his hands up, turns his rifle upside down, "offers" his sword, whatever. I don't even feel like this is a radical idea at all. It's quite normal for individuals to be bagged in the Civil War when cut off. Fighting alone and outnumbered is an absurd, and even dishonorable, concept for soldiers trained to fight in close formation and yet here it is, all around in every round on every map. You can't solve rambos completely, nor should you. But they should at least be mitigated to keeping their distance. That's a basic safety that a player should have in this game, not to have Johnny Banzai come up behind his line and start stabbing guys in the back one-by-one.

    Do we want rambos or not? Do we want a game that works or not? Do we want people to retreat and reorganize or fight to the death to the last man because they can? Close combat should be a gamble best taken with heavy odds not at a whim like it is now. And if you take a gamble and fail you deal with the consequences, you either run away or you are eliminated without requiring the opposing team to tango with you as long as you can drag it out. I'm all about the individual players pushing the limits. But there should be limits. The rambos should be tip-toeing just outside of autosurrender reach and not hanging out on the other side of a fence all alone 2 yards away reloading his musket to kill one more enemy for the emperor.

    As it is I'd heavily prefer there just wasn't an officer class than what we have now. It's more than misused and misrepresented as it is. The class is a major detriment to the gameplay right now. I'd upload more footage than just from 90 minutes tonight (and these weren't all the officer deaths either) but I don't see a point because anyone playing for more than a couple times can see it as plain as day. You can't rely on structured events to force people to adhere to some accepted practices in a role like the officer. Somehow tying the officer class to status in a clan or unit (as some desire) is a horrible, terrible idea while accomplishing nothing against that undesirable use of officer roles.

    And, whether you all agree with that or not please guys can we agree to get rid of the Confederate officers with blue uniforms, at least until the greater issue with officers is resolved? I'm literally finding myself checking the player list at times to make sure an officer is our's. I've literally killed my own officers before on accident thinking they were enemy. That would be a funny Easter Egg for April Fools day, not cool at all on an everyday basis. Can I get an amen from the Union players? It's doing wonders to promote misuse of officers. I've even got footage of rebel officers trying to lead union troops into traps. I don't get why anyone, no matter how fanatical with their history, would let that slip into a first person shooter.
    Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 12-30-2017 at 03:00 AM.

  2. #2

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    My approach would be to make the moral loss for a killed officer worse. If an officer is killed out of line the morale loss should be so high that 2 or three killed officers actually mean you loose the map. Like Johnston in Shiloh (don't take me too seriously on that last point )

    Edit: just saw that the exact same thing was already proposed, I am all for that idea
    Last edited by Gamble; 12-30-2017 at 08:42 AM.

  3. #3

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    A valid tactic considering how things are ? :
    What kind of 'parlor soldier' just solitary charges into a line of talking 'Zu Zu's' in a dense Cornfield ? .. Oh wait, I'm the greenhorn that you 'bluebellies' are referring to as 'fucking officer'.
    In the corn and forest it's a common tactic when a line is reloading or not covering the flanks that an officer charges and decimates the numbers, unless that line is covered by another NCO or officer.

    Flanking officers can be a menace, but not always a key to succes :
    I agree this can be very frustating, but a 'bugger' these days is a 'Chief cook and bottle washer'.
    Considering an officer has a leading role, it's usually the NCO's with a pistol to take on the role of revolver hero (if they have one).
    You can say a revolver only has a few shots, but as you can see ... they where very effective in this case, but for most random people it will be a suicide run.

    Some 'off time' :
    If things aren't going well, wel then maybe it's time for some Rio or some 'going down the line' to ride a Dutch girl (sorry Timo, it's the name for a Fancy girl).
    Or you can can go 'Blue mass' eating or drinking something that gives you the 'flux'.

    About the blue uniforms in the CSA :
    For the CSA it's also a problem, so the advice is for an officer wearing 'Blue' is to not leave the line ... otherwise some anxious southern soldier will probably end that sentiment with a lead ball.
    On one occassion I was in the lovely 'blue/red' and just was standing between a mill full of Union soldiers, took a long while for them to figure out I was on the CSA. (Damn Timo ... )

    Note : these tactics only work when not much people are playing; if there are 10+ waiting for a charging lone rambo ... I wish him all the best.
    Last edited by Redleader; 12-30-2017 at 10:49 AM.
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  4. #4

    USA General of the Army

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redleader View Post
    A valid tactic considering how things are ? :
    What kind of 'parlor soldier' just solitary charges into a line of talking 'Zu Zu's' in a dense Cornfield ? .. Oh wait, I'm the greenhorn that you 'bluebellies' are referring to as 'fucking officer'.
    In the corn and forest it's a common tactic when a line is reloading or not covering the flanks that an officer charges and decimates the numbers, unless that line is covered by another NCO or officer.
    ^ I'm with Poorlaggedman. It's kind of shitty for officer players or SgtMaj players to do this.

    Please can you cite your claim that it's a common tactic? Maybe a period infantry manuel?

  5. #5

    CSA Major General

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravescot View Post
    Please can you cite your claim that it's a common tactic? Maybe a period infantry manuel?


    Sorry Bravescot, I was meaning ingame (not in a historical context).
    Ingame lots of pistol wielders come in from the sides to pick off a line of soldiers, or even in a worst case scenario they wait near spawn to pick reinforcements off.

    As for history I'm not under the impression such a thing would be possible, infiltration and activities behind enemy lines is a more modern tactic.

    On : I'm with Poorlaggedman. It's kind of shitty for officer players or SgtMaj players to do this.

    As we had 'this' happening to us, we quicky adapted ... in some maps we encountered that infantry rushed up to point to cap just to have (an) officer('s)/NCO('s) waiting there to wipe the first line. (in the meanwhile their infantry reload, takes position ...)
    Last edited by Redleader; 12-30-2017 at 11:55 AM.
    I write for my personal account and from personal experience, unless stated otherwise.

  6. #6
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    We do understand that problem and we are trying to find a solution at the moment, but its not that easy as it is

    About the officers in blue:
    We already have a limited number of officers in blue. If we would stay more historic accurate, you would see even more confederate officers in blue, which was still common during Antietam.
    Still, there are quite a few evidences to reveal, if its a friend or an enemy.

  7. #7

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    +1 to autosurrender (not only for officers)

    ALSO some other suggestions:
    - punish not only the whole side, but also the particular player killed “out of formation” by longer respawn time AND by losing officer/NCO class (maybe after second or third such death)
    - make officer or NCO class presence as a requirement for switching ON the “In Formatin” status (not “skirmish” status); Granting formation with flag and officer even more bonuses would be nice


    I disagree with removal of historical (blue) uniforms. Friendly fire did happen. The issue with blue officers will be implicitly solved as soon as the Rambo officer issue is solved.

  8. #8

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    I really like the idea where officers dying out of line causes a much higher ticket loss. Right now rambo officers is in my top 5 issues, but i'm glad to hear it's already being looked into.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivoj View Post
    +1 to autosurrender (not only for officers)
    I disagree with removal of historical (blue) uniforms. Friendly fire did happen. The issue with blue officers will be implicitly solved as soon as the Rambo officer issue is solved.
    Think the 'issue' some have is not the officers class per se, but the usage of pistols.

    On the 'Pry Ford (remember Fort Bush)' some 'Union cav' units spawn with a rifle, a pistol and a sword ... here you will notice the usage of pistols is less effective because this would mean you would have to traverse an open area or rush an already weakened CSA position.
    A charge from the CSA would only by considered to regain strategic grounds (cap) as a last ditch effort.

    If you would take out the blue uniforms from the officer, you would still have blue infantry in the CSA.
    I personally like the whole ragtag uniforms the CSA has.

    Like said before, the officers will in best case get off 5-6 shots (unless you have the Lemat) and then will have to resort to his sword.
    At range that class is useless and that's one less rifle on the field (unless Cav).
    I write for my personal account and from personal experience, unless stated otherwise.

  10. #10
    Hinkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTW View Post
    I really like the idea where officers dying out of line causes a much higher ticket loss. Right now rambo officers is in my top 5 issues, but i'm glad to hear it's already being looked into.
    I don't think that "rambos" care about the much higher ticket loss for their own team. This would also punish the team players, which can't do much about that rambo officer.

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