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Thread: Poor Harper's Ferry...

  1. #21
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBelle View Post
    Come on now Trusty, you know I test Harper's Ferry by merit of our last conversation . All I said was the maps get a bum rap because of the first three missteps, not that I don't play them; you'll note I said the last three maps have been far better. As for your "consumer mentality" comment, I don't see the distinction. Ultimately it's the consumers you need to satisfy; we testers are just consumers with a bit more stake in the project.

    Now, back on topic: Harper's Ferry will be better once the inclusion of player run artillery hits the deck, even if that means a player runs up to a stationary device, presses their "Use" key, and the gun fires on a predetermined point.
    I would very much hope you'd be able to make that distinction. It is what is required in a test environment after all. If our testers are not capable or willing to look past "missteps" (which there will always be as you're our first line of testers) and then treat other bits of testing based off of that then the testing environment dies.

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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    I would very much hope you'd be able to make that distinction. It is what is required in a test environment after all. If our testers are not capable or willing to look past "missteps" (which there will always be as you're our first line of testers) and then treat other bits of testing based off of that then the testing environment dies.

    - Trusty
    I don't mean to come off as rude but the whole point of a testing environment is to improve the game and get feedback from your play testers. Yes there is a distinction between early adopters and regular consumers but we all still are playing the game therefor we're still consumers too.

  3. #23

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    Well, the devs are doing an excellent job making the game, it is a masterpiece. I enjoy what there is to enjoy regardless, because it is fun either way.

  4. #24
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie3601 View Post
    I don't mean to come off as rude but the whole point of a testing environment is to improve the game and get feedback from your play testers. Yes there is a distinction between early adopters and regular consumers but we all still are playing the game therefor we're still consumers too.
    You are correct. That requires testing to be done though. If the feedback is "I don't want to play Harpers Ferry because of the initial release of the 3 areas" then there is very little we can do about that other than informing the tester that the first 3 areas of Harpers Ferry have been changed and balanced based on the initial feedback we got.

    I know you can't seperate the two entirely and we don't expect you to be able to at all times. However, if you want to go into specifics you are not consumers playing the game yet. You are backers getting access to the alpha of the game as a thank you for backing the development and thus we expect you to test and we expect you to understand that it is not the finished product you are playing/testing.

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  5. #25

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    I for my part do enjoy playing the Harper's Ferry areas a lot. Even from the very first time these were introduced (and yes, I played both sides). I don't look for perfectly balanced maps in this game, since it's supposed to be about realism and historical accuracy (that counts for "what if" scenarios as well as the ones that really happened back then). It's great to follow CG through the development of this gem of a game/simulation. To be honest it looks to me as if some players equal fun with winning and owning other players, and it would be very sad if this was all this game would be about in the end.

    Bravescots wish for wider Areas and the ability to flank and try out different tactics is something that I would support as well though.
    Last edited by Gamble; 06-05-2018 at 06:50 AM.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    I would very much hope you'd be able to make that distinction. It is what is required in a test environment after all. If our testers are not capable or willing to look past "missteps" (which there will always be as you're our first line of testers) and then treat other bits of testing based off of that then the testing environment dies.

    - Trusty
    But there [is] is no distinction in the base form. Ultimately, your main goal is to please the consumer, and that starts at the base testing level. Pardon me for being blunt, but it feels as though you think I put blinders on when I play. I can assure you that I don't. When I test, I look at the game from three points: Where it stands at the time of testing, where and how it might evolve for the better or worse, and is it sellable in its current form; these three variables mesh together(which is why I say there's no distinction between tester and consumer, as to properly test something you have to take into account how the wider audience will play the game.)


    To Gamble, I would just have to say that if one team can never win because of the way a map is built, you won't have that team for very long. You have to sacrifice historical accuracy for play mechanics at one time or another. Pointing fingers at other players is not how we do things in regards to testing.
    Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in!

  7. #27
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBelle View Post
    But there [is] is no distinction in the base form. Ultimately, your main goal is to please the consumer, and that starts at the base testing level. Pardon me for being blunt, but it feels as though you think I put blinders on when I play. I can assure you that I don't. When I test, I look at the game from three points: Where it stands at the time of testing, where and how it might evolve for the better or worse, and is it sellable in its current form; these three variables mesh together(which is why I say there's no distinction between tester and consumer, as to properly test something you have to take into account how the wider audience will play the game.)


    To Gamble, I would just have to say that if one team can never win because of the way a map is built, you won't have that team for very long. You have to sacrifice historical accuracy for play mechanics at one time or another. Pointing fingers at other players is not how we do things in regards to testing.
    I'm sorry if I came across that way - I wasn't speaking directly in regards to how you experience the alpha but more so commenting on a broader, general level.

    The River Crossing skirmish area is a tough one to win for the Union currently - at least durig less populated matches (been a while since we've been able to do balance adjustments with a higher player count).

    - Trusty

  8. #28

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    I'm going to give Harpers Ferry some love here as there seems so little of it in this thread. I live 20 minutes from there currently and believe it to be one of the most scenically beautiful spots in the United States east of the Mississippi. Just to see a historical representation of a place that I visit regularly is amazing in it's own right and sometimes I just want to walk around and look at the buildings and forget there's a fight going on. And town battles which were relatively uncommon in the Civil War compared to field battles offer a unique opportunity to fight in a different way, building to building, through alleys, etc. and is something that ADDS more to this game at this point than simply adding more fields/woods at lets say South Mountain that doesn't offer much variance of tactics.

    You have to skirmish for the most part but it provides that experience that skirmishers had when trying to clear a town of sharpshooters for example before the main body of the army moved in like what occurred in Fredericksburg. This was prevalent throughout the Civil War and I'm glad to see it represented in this game early on. I also appreciate the amazing number of maps the developers have provided in these early phases of Alpha.

    As a reenactor for Civil War, French & Indian War, and Revolutionary War, the town battles are always coveted as they force us to vary tactics (as leaders had to historically), and there's nothing that gets your blood moving like turning the corner of a building and seeing a line of enemies getting ready to fire a volley into you. On the same note there is something that gets quite boring after you've done a few hundred field battles so I think what will happen as this game matures is people will begin to better appreciate Harpers Ferry for the variety it offers over the long haul.
    Last edited by Shiloh; 06-05-2018 at 03:55 PM.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiloh View Post
    ... and there's nothing that gets your blood moving like turning the corner of a building and seeing a line of enemies getting ready to fire a volley into you.....
    and this especially is not possible at the moment, as your in-game-character acts like he jumped out the soldiers manual in terms of moving and handling the gun. You cant lean around a corner, you cant jump into cover, you cant rise quickly from cover to shoot an enemy.....to be honest, i expected harpers ferry to play like the fighting scenes in "Gods & Generals" in Fredericksburg but maybe this will something in the future
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  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfly View Post
    and this especially is not possible at the moment, as your in-game-character acts like he jumped out the soldiers manual in terms of moving and handling the gun. You cant lean around a corner, you cant jump into cover, you cant rise quickly from cover to shoot an enemy.....to be honest, i expected harpers ferry to play like the fighting scenes in "Gods & Generals" in Fredericksburg but maybe this will something in the future
    I'm sure there's a lot planned here in the way of development but one thing I like to do is aim before moving in a position to shoot whether around a corner of a building or behind a tree and once my musket steadies, then I step out. It cuts down exposure time. I still disagree with the musket shake and as a reenactor, can say through 10 years experience that it doesn't take that period of time to steady a musket nor is it that shaky but maybe that'll be looked at in the future. As far as the movement stuff time will tell whether it makes it in-game.

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