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Thread: A few words regarding organized gameplay thanks to regiments ...

  1. #1

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    A few words regarding organized gameplay thanks to regiments ...

    Before I start, I'd like to apologize for my words - they matter not but I need to get rid of 'em.

    Yesterday I took part in the events which were hosted on an EU server. We had 80 - 100 players most time and it looked like fun first. Usually, I'm not biased towards a side and since I'm not part of any regiment, you can find me either fighting for the Yankees or as Johnny Reb.
    Too bad, the event lacked any organization on Union side that day. We simply had no experienced officer (and only a few regimental boys) on our side and Rebs had an easy time taking us down. In one match, Union had suffered nearly thrice the casualties Confeds had just due lack of proper leadership. The other match we had an officer that had a bit of experience, we didn't win and still suffered bad decisions, but at least we kept our morale and had proper lines set up.
    Now that's not the reason why I'm writing down those lines.

    There was a small discussion going on dealing with "locked event servers for regiments". In fact, the entire talk started since we had no experienced officer leading our troops, instead the officer spot got either bugged (no officer at all) or was occupied by someone with questionable experience.
    I'm not much of a fan of "locked" servers, unless a clan battle is going on (read: two regiments want to duke it out undisturbed). It simply will lead to following scenario: regiments will stay away from public servers, public players get denied experienced leadership by officers and soldiers organized in regiments resulting in a questionable gaming experience aka "no fun".
    Now I do have some battles under my belt, maybe not that many like most regimental players, but still know the drill well enough. Most of the battles I took part had organized players and publics and we all were following a simple set of rules: if you're in a regiment, you follow your officer. And if you're not in a regiment, you tag along with one of the present ones and do whatever they do. Nice and simple, everyone can do that, even when not doing any drill preparations.
    However, it simply doesn't work if no experienced officers (read: officers from any regiment) with some of his boys is present and able leading a line. Then the game simply falls apart. Picking the officer class alone doesn't make anyone an officer, but uses up a valuable spot. Picking the officer class without some boys supporting you also does not work since you need a certain amount of players to set up a line willingly - which isn't always working with a pure public line. In fact I believe, it's less the officer setting up a properly organized line but the players he brings with him - which IS a boon of regiments. They all know their job and officers usually can think about the ongoing battle. They don't need to organize a line by hand, that's what NCOs do and the players by themselves.
    That means: any good officer player comes with his own boys and sets up a line as "rally point".

    And that's when my argument starts to get weight. If no organized regiment is around, you'll end with a bunch of random players. Even when they know the deal, if there's no one to lead them, they simply won't work together in any meaningful manner. And even when they manage to stick together: a host of ragtag bunch of misfits isn't a line and will get gunned down at every situation, regardless if they act on their own or if they're led by an inexperienced officer that's simply an officer 'cuz the player took that role. No organized gameplay is no fun. And if regiments can lock themselves away, they'll remove the only element that makes a random public battle an organized one: their regiment. In a way we'll end with a self-fulfilling prophecy: regiments stay away from public servers due lack of organization - which is caused by regiments that do not play on public servers. Odd, isn't it? Thankfully, we don't have the option to lock servers currently, which means we still can enjoy organized public battles.

    Now let's wonder if my mindset is wrong, shall we?
    Yesterday I took part in a battle at Nicodemus Hill (spelling?) as Union soldier. We had roughly three formations: one left, one center and one right. None of 'em had nearly enough players to break through. The center formation was more or less a skirmishing unit without an officer or whatsoever and we kept firing at them Rebs. Since we had no proper leadership, we couldn't really support any of the flanking units. Als there was neither coordination nor did anybody came up with the idea of using messengers. I'm no leader in WoR, I simply don't know the drill. It's not that I can't command "at the ready - aim - fire", it's more the tactical part. When do I move my boys where? And since I know that, I simply don't pick the officer class. I do sometimes pick the NCO, his main job is to relay orders from the officer in charge to his end of the line. That's something I can do but even that role is rarely pick'd by me.
    So, now I ask you: shall I pick a commanding role if I don't know enough doing that job 'cuz nobody else is taking command? Won't that lead to the very same situation I was describing above? A unit led by a poor officer with zero experience, no soldiers supporting him ... does that help anybody? Is my mindset wrong here?
    As I said before: for me, there are a few simple rules: if a regiment is around, I stick with 'em and do what they do. And I will do my damnest to do a good job - and won't take valuable spots as officer, I will free up the spot of NCO or flag bearer if asked. Actually, I would do the same if I were part of any regiment.

    I'm just saying. I can't join a regiment due lack of time and some other reasons any time soon, but I do enjoy volunteering in any line battle bolstering a regiment's number. At least I would feel devastated if regiments could lock themselves away from public servers in the long run - which may harm the game itself. As I said: organized gameplay is fun as hell, a lack of organization is not.

    </end of words>
    Ingame Nick: [KRT.2ndAuriga]Cpt.Data
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  2. #2

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    Very appreciative of your thoughts, I'm on my phone or otherwise I would probably have a more comprehensive reply. I did want to address this,

    I would feel devastated if regiments could lock themselves away from public servers
    Fear not. Speaking for a couple of associations, the big battalions only plan on doing locked servers for events with certain rulesets (no skirmishing, hiding behind fences/terrain, etc) and scores to settle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbsmith7 View Post
    Very appreciative of your thoughts, I'm on my phone or otherwise I would probably have a more comprehensive reply. I did want to address this,


    Fear not. Speaking for a couple of associations, the big battalions only plan on doing locked servers for events with certain rulesets (no skirmishing, hiding behind fences/terrain, etc) and scores to settle.
    That's part of my concerns: at least I do enjoy such events with special rules and took part in some of 'em. And again the golden rule is: "if you're part of a regiment, find your officer/unit - and if you're not part of a regiment, tag along with one and do what they do."
    Too bad that doesn't apply on all players.

    So I wonder: if there are locked events, is there any way for a "pubby" to take part there? Like "invitation" or "Volunteering" or something? I know some regiments do accept volunteers (non-members) for certain events, but not all of 'em.
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  4. #4

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    Since I was there yesterday, I can comment on a few things :

    Union leadership & organisation

    Bigger regiments vs smaller units : CSA had the bulk of II corps & 6th AL while Union had a few smaller regiments and more 'non enlisted' players :
    • It's harder for Union to organize, we had a group in the house and a few skirmishing soldiers but in no way to threaten an easily shifting CSA force.
    • Global Union leadership was an issue, the question remains who could take leadership and if others would follow or at least coordinate the effort ?
    • As a CSA player I feel a threshold in 'leading' Union, supporting or helping out as an NCO feels better … it's even in our interest to have good experienced Union officers.
    • Agree on : if no leadership is on, people will resort in what they do best or think is best.


    Taking the officer spot

    On teamspeak we had the same discussion when one of our 'non leading' members took on the officer spot on Union :
    • We believe the officer spot should be open for an officer or NCO or a designated member assigned to lead (for test).
    • Union officers spots should definitely go to a Union player, the argument was brought op that at the time nobody wanted to lead or take the spot.
    • Taking the officer spot comes with responsibility, the spots means organizing men into battle … (I know some just want to mess around with the pistol -> I prefer they take NCO and try to support).
    • Events are different then weekly skirmishes, events require more structure and right people on the right place (try and keep the officer & NCO spots open).
    • Don't underestimate leading, it's more then just giving out orders and can be quite energy draining, especially leading bigger groups.


    -> We hope in the future company tool will be leading for ingame uniforms so people have a visual confirmation of one's rank/regiment.

    Private servers

    • The '+' would be that the rules of battle are followed since it's an organized event, it also could help with cohesion and communication.
    • Agree on : closed servers are great for groups having a face off or testing tactics/maps ...
    • Agree on : The '-' would be that you isolate off part of the community


    -> Some people just want to play and aren't really interested in the whole 'line battle' or organization and they just join the server with people on … which makes sense

    Communication
    • Ingame chat : using it will give an idea on people's opinion
    • Some use discord & teamspeak only to relay orders, the problem is it leaves 'non regimental' players kind of left out but is more effective in organizing things.
    • Sometimes 'ingame voice' doesn't work which makes it more difficult.


    Otto & Sherrick farm (as Union)
    • We had a group shooting from the house and a few skirmishers on the side, but where in no way could bolster an organized attack on an organized CSA line (who could easily shift).
    • Damage was done to the CSA line since we could shoot and reload in cover.


    Nicodemus hill (as CSA)
    • 1st GA had the left & 6th LA had the right, we both had good visual and a good spot … we also had contact with the other group and could shift or reform pretty fast.
    • The tactic is easily implemented, try and hold back the enemy … if they have a superior force try to slow them down, retreat and reform and counter ...

  5. #5

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    as i have been playing this game for well over a yr now i would say the problem with the union side is they all are mostly paper companies what i mean is they have many companies with well over 100 people but have no one playing and they keep making new companies every day what they should do i get the 50-100 players that play the union side and make one good company and that will be a big step in the right direction
    i have been wanting to say this for a while now is that company tool should only be available to people with capt pledge or higher that way you know the people you recruit can at least play the game then the next problem is people take the officers spot just cause they can and doesnt help leadership either
    the csa has a large group of people who have actually have played this game for the last yr together, the 6th LA- 1st GA- 6th Al all have been doing this since last may and the leadership we have doesnt happen over nite it will take the union a long time to fine some good leaders on a consistent basis but it looks like they are trying now with 72nd and other and wish them good luck

    and if you are not in a company you are always welcome to tag along with the 2nd corp on the csa side anytime you want and ask questions and we will try to answer them for you

    and i dont see the public servers being deserted when privates ones go live unless this games gets 10s of thousands of players they wont be enough players to fill up alot of servers nightly so i dont worry about that to much

    you have to find leaders who you trust and can follow and that takes time whether it is the csa or union you have to play with people for a long time and i mean months to learn whether they are a good leader or not these companies and regiments that come and go every day doesnt help matters either for the union side
    i am not trying to bash the union but this post like others always seem to be about the leadership sorry that is what this is directed at nothing more or less
    Last edited by sal_tuskin; 06-03-2018 at 03:08 PM.

  6. #6

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    Thanks for your input, Redleader! Same @sal_tuskin, of course!

    Actually, you did point out some very interesting issues, like the "loyalty issue". You're part of a Confed regiment and, yeah, I totally understand your feeling. It's pretty much the same for Pallioetti (spelling?) or Cody: if no CSA spot is free, they'll be on Union side, but refuse taking a leadership role. That is absolutely understandable and nobody will hold that against you or the other guys.

    Also you said the officer spot comes with some responsibilities. I'm well aware of that and therefore refuse taking that spot at all. It's a bit more than barking orders and players usually blame officers if things go wrong. Let's put it this way: if a new face pops up, taking the helm, I usually give him a chance. If that guy knows a bit of the trade, it's still better than nothing, sometimes it's better to have an inexperienced officer than none at all. In best case, the guy learns quickly and turns out to be a capable officer, even if he comes out of the blue. In worst case, the guy insists on decisions like "charging blindly into the enemy ranks" every time. And that's the point when an inexperienced leader turns into a burden for the team. Sometimes I wish those officers would realise their failings and step down, freeing the spot for someone else, which I'd consider a very responsible thing to do. So in a way it's not only a responsible role to act as an officer, it's equally responsible to refuse picking up that role if one doesn't feel ready. I rather learn that trade first before sending some good boys into the fray!

    Communication was a huge issue. The ingame chat usually doesn't get paid attention to and VoiP has limited range. So it's like you said: players without TS/Discord don't get the newest intel, they may not even get an idea what the other units are curently planning, resulting in a lack of coordination. Another reason why I don't do the officer job: I'm not in any of the regimental chats and will do no good to ensure our strategy plays out as planned.

    I mean, is it just me or does it boil down to "if you can't lead, don't do it?"

    ---------------

    The main reason why I posted my lill' rant is 'cuz I'm somehow mostly playing for CSA at events. And usually I tag along with the IInd Corps or 1st TX - depending on my mood or whomever needs an extra musket. Leadership doesn't come over night and nobody expects that. But I was -really- and -truely- shocked how bad leadership was yesterday for the Union. I really didn't expect that, since I'm used to the better organized leadership of the Confeds. Also, yesterday appeared to be a rather bad day since I know from experience as well as from streams Union doesn't always suffer from that issue. So either this was a poor day for Union yesterday - or I was lucky to never have to go though that before.
    Last edited by CptData; 06-03-2018 at 03:26 PM.
    Ingame Nick: [KRT.2ndAuriga]Cpt.Data
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  7. #7

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    no by all means try to lead if you want too but have a plan, know the map, know your enemy just dont grab and officer slot and wing it and that is what seems to happening on the union side alot
    i would suggest try to get in a regiment most of 2 corps dont have much of an attendence code show up when you can and we can help, you are welcome in our ts if you would like and you can see what our leaders do and dont do
    if you see me or and officer in 2 corps just ask they or i will help

    and i am sure the union will do the same if you want to play them i know maj stone is helpful look him up if he is on line and i think 1st cav is some old 1st ga guys they know what to do

    also today at 3:30 est the 2nd corps has their drill feel free to attended they will be in a csa drill camp then go play after that
    if you want to lead you have to find people to lead so you need to start there

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptData View Post
    I mean, is it just me or does it boil down to "if you can't lead, don't do it?"
    Some are born into it, others learn … like 'Sal' said try it, it may be something you like and grow into or it comes natural.
    We didn't want to scare you off, just confirm that it's sometimes not easy especially for starters but with some good people supporting you'll get further.

    Some 'new' players will automatically follow an officer uniform Cause some expect that the guy with stars and stripes knows what he's doing … and sure mistakes are part of it.
    That's why we try to let our members try on the role (we learn them the basics, drill is open for everyone), give people a chance and they might shine

    -> Again 'events' are different from the regular matches, in just skirmish you can more easily take on the officer spot and start of with a few men. (form at spawn/at a point and deploy tactics)
    -> Like 'Sal' pointed out, drills (both sides) are an interesting place to check out !
    Last edited by Redleader; 06-03-2018 at 05:26 PM.

  9. #9

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    Thanks both of you. I'll keep that in mind. Not sure if I can make it today evening due "wife + daughter". Family business, ya 'now.
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  10. #10

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    one of the problems tends to be pubs that grab the officer role, making it difficult for actual organized groups to use the officers role and tools as intended. Also, its unsurprising that the CSA has better cohesion simply because of real life interest in the lost cause and a personal desire to remedy it ingame lol
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