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Thread: A few words regarding organized gameplay thanks to regiments ...

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleddyn View Post
    Actually the current phase is called "Skirmishes Closed Alpha Phase I".

    Attachment 8882

    These are skirmishing maps we are currently playing. Line battle maps will be much bigger I believe. (I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.)
    I'm curious about whether the individual map boundaries will expand when we're out of this phase, and more into a line battle phase? Of course this would be to allow large line formations more room to maneuver but I'm not sure whether that is necessary.

  2. #22

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    All the current skirmish areas are part of an overall single large 6 square mile map. When battle phase comes out the skirmish boundaries will disappear.

  3. #23
    Not a fan of the desertion thing at all. You're gonna have to explain to people in perpetuity to the point that it's a constant complaint. Why not just force everyone to be part of a formation or else be shot for desertion? It's stupid and it eclipses the original problems. Even the flag bearer having to be close or be shot for desertion will be a problem. I think it's opening a can of worms and will metaphorical whack-a-mole for the plethora of exceptions which are not considered or just reasonable people not wanting to be attached at the hip to group think formation movements. There's no leadership, no plans for leadership roles meaning anything or being respected so why would it have any other result?

    Want to mutiny? Heck.... just everyone scatter and watch that officer keel over dead after 20 seconds. The least powerful person is now officially the officer in that situation. This isn't gonna work and it shouldn't work that way. I'd rather be shot in the back by an officer on occasion than deal with that level of silliness, all for a role that can't reload and essentially means nothing outside of close combat and an annoying icon it can place.
    Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 06-08-2018 at 04:08 PM.
    Suggestion: Formations, Suppression, Spawning, Leadership https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZqPsbvyD8s


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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    Not a fan of the desertion thing at all. You're gonna have to explain to people in perpetuity to the point that it's a constant complaint. Why not just force everyone to be part of a formation or else be shot for desertion? It's stupid and it eclipses the original problems. Even the flag bearer having to be close or be shot for desertion will be a problem. I think it's opening a can of worms and will metaphorical whack-a-mole for the plethora of exceptions which are not considered or just reasonable people not wanting to be attached at the hip to group think formation movements. There's no leadership, no plans for leadership roles meaning anything or being respected so why would it have any other result?

    Want to mutiny? Heck.... just everyone scatter and watch that officer keel over dead after 20 seconds. The least powerful person is now officially the officer in that situation. This isn't gonna work and it shouldn't work that way. I'd rather be shot in the back by an officer on occasion than deal with that level of silliness, all for a role that can't reload and essentially means nothing outside of close combat and an annoying icon it can place.
    Hi there!

    thank you for the feedback. We will test how it plays out (what the alpha is for after all) and make adjustments based off of that.

    I’d be interested to know what sort of system you would think better? (You mostly just seem to attack the proposed idea (which will be tested, the system for it is already completed) and not offer much of an alternative).

    I’m also interested in your statement about there being no leadership and no plans for the role to mean anything. This too seems overly negative, and frankly wrong - we have several plans regarding the officer class.

    - Trusty

  5. #25

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    You can't push everything in a system. Eventually similar minded folk will agree to fight each other in the correct setting to there liking. Eventually with the big battle mode different sorts of communities will form just the way it goes.
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  6. #26
    Someone has to be negative. The majority of folks in this community now would be very pleased simply with a platform to do line battles, something which they are already safe in knowing will never be threatened. I don't think most people believe in a functioning public server and yet that is crucial to the community growing, it certainly isn't possible in the other types of games these same niche gamers choose to play.

    In order for officer roles to mean something, the player who occupies them has to be well-qualified. IMO the only way to do that is by a simple but complex democratic rating system (up/down) which allows people to spawn as a team officer or bump someone from that role. Since every bit of everyone's opinion averaged out matters so much as to how much you're respected I don't see too many variations of that working very well at all. Something good wouldn't cut it well, it has to be optimal. The less optimal it is, the more it just remains a class that gets a different weapon (which requires severe nerfing to be allowed in the game) in the same way a WWII game may give an "NCO class" a sub machine gun and a couple smoke grenades.

    It's dangerous trying to make single players critically matter. It doesn't just open you to very effective trolling it also means when nerves are frayed that people will retaliate by doing their job poorly because they were yelled at and they didn't like it. Much better to set optimal conditions to make use of an officer and flag bearer and whatever and not try to necessitate it in order for the game to function well. Leadership in video games is an important but tricky thing. Twenty seconds is a long time for a flag bearer to run off with a flag before being suicided. What can you do? Have the flag spawn back at the formation again? What about the exceptions? What if he's left behind or AFK? Should the team get the flag back? Should be be TKd? Should you be able to seize the flag from an AFK player without killing a player? Just rhetorical questions. A spawn revolving around a player is scary.
    Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 06-08-2018 at 05:29 PM.
    Suggestion: Formations, Suppression, Spawning, Leadership https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZqPsbvyD8s


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  7. #27
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    Someone has to be negative. The majority of folks in this community now would be very pleased simply with a platform to do line battles, something which they are already safe in knowing will never be threatened. I don't think most people believe in a functioning public server and yet that is crucial to the community growing, it certainly isn't possible in the other types of games these same niche gamers choose to play.

    In order for officer roles to mean something, the player who occupies them has to be well-qualified. IMO the only way to do that is by a simple but complex democratic rating system (up/down) which allows people to spawn as a team officer or bump someone from that role. Since every bit of everyone's opinion averaged out matters so much as to how much you're respected I don't see too many variations of that working very well at all. Something good wouldn't cut it well, it has to be optimal. The less optimal it is, the more it just remains a class that gets a different weapon (which requires severe nerfing to be allowed in the game) in the same way a WWII game may give an "NCO class" a sub machine gun and a couple smoke grenades.

    It's dangerous trying to make single players critically matter. It doesn't just open you to very effective trolling it also means when nerves are frayed that people will retaliate by doing their job poorly because they were yelled at and they didn't like it. Much better to set optimal conditions to make use of an officer and flag bearer and whatever and not try to necessitate it in order for the game to function well. Leadership in video games is an important but tricky thing. Twenty seconds is a long time for a flag bearer to run off with a flag before being suicided. What can you do? Have the flag spawn back at the formation again? What about the exceptions? What if he's left behind or AFK? Should the team get the flag back? Should be be TKd? Should you be able to seize the flag from an AFK player without killing a player? Just rhetorical questions. A spawn revolving around a player is scary.
    A voting system has been discussed internally before - it is certainly something we might look into in the future. A voting system is only as strong as the playerbase on the server in question though (unless you wish it to be a game wide reputation system which is quite a different matter altogether). Throughout the year of skirmishes I have seen my share of high ranking officers of larger companies go on various rambo sprees for different reasons. They'd be able to continue to do so with a voting system simply because they have the majority of the team behind them.

    A flag bearer out of line for too long being despawned (and dropping the flag) will result in the flag laying on the ground for a set amount of time with a marker for his teammates. After the set amount of time is up the flag despawns from the gameworld and the flag bearer class is now available for selection again (the team is made aware of this by a short in-game message).

    A spawn revolving around a player is indeed scary. We've spent a lot of time tinkering and tweaking this system and we'll most certainly have got something wrong which will be highlighted when we bring it into testing I'm sure.

    - Trusty

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra Baldwin View Post
    "People need to become comfortable with following someone other than an officer class because anyone can and will take it without major overhauls to how you can select it. Use common sense and don't follow a guy into an open-ground stand-up fight on an entrenched (fenced) enemy." -Poorlaggedman

    I couldn't agree with you more on this point. All too often in battle right now, I hear people saying "where's an officer" or "we need an officer" when in truth they don't need an officer, but a leader. Anyone can grab the officer slot and try to start bossing people around, but that doesn't necessarily make them a good leader. I don't have an answer for this problem, but I think more organized companies can help. For instance, if our company has trained on certain firing drills etc. we don't really need someone, playing an officer slot, coming in and trying to tell us every little order in battle, but instead coordinate a general plan of battle or working with them instead of trying to run our company would work much better. Then we can operate as a company the way we have trained and still coordinate with everyone around us.
    Yes, indeed. The officer role has only one big advantage over non-officers: pick one and you can draw a line on the ground. Besides that, it's just a revolver with 6 shots (once they're gone, they are gone) and a fancy uniform. By the way, I hope revolvers get an option for real reloads - give 'em 2 or 3 extra drums. Reloading the drum itself didn't happen in the field, it took simply too much time. And replacing the drum also took considerable time, so even if our officers get extra drums, they can't rambo.

    I remember a couple of battles as Reb when Paioletti led his units as a private. That's right: the guy pick'd the standard soldier class and still was able to lead his unit, even without the feature "line drawing". Because the he knows what he does, he comes with at least a dozen boys of his regiment which know the drill already. Also it helps he has a remarkable voice (Union troops also have one or two outstandingly voiced guys, I just don't remember them) so if you hear the man, serious sh*t is about to happen. And it works surprisingly often. Same for LaBelle, I guess.
    So yeah, a well known guy that's respected as a leader is able to do something. I just wish we had more of them instead just a couple.

    By the way: I'm naming those two guys as "positive examples". At least I didn't have any issues ever with 'em and in fact they're both my faves on Reb side. Union side does have some good guys too, but they appear to be less often active - or I miss their appearances.
    Last edited by CptData; 06-08-2018 at 05:50 PM.
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    I'm not part of any Company: KRT is a clan playing Star Citizen and 2ndAuriga means I'm member of the 2nd wing of the Auriga Squadron.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinkel View Post
    The limitation of 6 rounds per revolver makes him pretty useless already, if he faces a full line of 30 soldiers for example.

    Besides that, rambo officers will get reduced in the future with adding some new features (like a desertion, if he is not attached to a formation).
    Pretty sure we will try out different things, once we have some other needed features added
    That is a big "if". Rarely does the officer do that. Usually he slips around the flank behind a group and the combination of pistol and sword wipes them out. This is possible mostly because unless one of the attacked happens to be faced so he can see the officer come up from the rear the group seldom knows someone is killing them one by one. And, all you have to do is die to reload.

    Down grade the officers melee ability with gun and sword will force the officer to stay where he belongs. Supporting his line of battle.

    This could be further encouraged by giving some morale bonuses to lines with officers.
    Lightfoot

  10. #30

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    I saw in another post that they are working on adding VOIP identification, which will help some as well. There will still be plenty of people talking at the same time, not intentionally, but at least you will be able to see who is talking and know who is giving verbal commands/orders. Those that now rely on that "officer" figure, may not be so reliant in the future if they know who is actually talking and giving orders with VOIP.


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