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Thread: So-called "server rules"

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptData View Post
    I'd call them "Reenactment Event Servers".
    I like it or just Event Server.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptData View Post
    I'd call them "Reenactment Event Servers".

    Why? 'cuz "Line Battles" were fought, but not always and not under all circumstances. If you call those servers "Reenactment Event Servers", you still get to play by rules - rules, which do include line battle rules, but also rules for other types of combat used at that time.
    In that case, "cycling maps" should be a thing of the past (as mentioned a few posts earlier), if the server rules get expanded to "reenactment rules".

    Just sayin' ...
    Amusing.

    I was a re-enactor for the best part of fifteen years, and I should add here that I'm English, and that most events I took part in were in Britain. Most, but not all, I've done three events in the States (most notable during the filming of Pickets Charge in Killer Angels/Gettysburg). So first of all let's kill a myth that seems rampant on these forums, EVERY re-enactment I've done has been chaos. Now I was just a lowly Sgt, so I was never privvy to 'the plan', but even those who were officers would more than likely say the same thing. Most of you seem to think that re-enactors stand in perfectly formed ranks and fire guns.......NOT the case lol, after the first 'casualties' it's pretty much just bedlam. Also, for the benefit of sal_tuskin ''the actual line battle lasts about 5min then one company wants to go flank and shoot into the side'', flanking was used in real Civil War battles lol, a line battle does NOT mean standing in lines facing each other all the time......and if that's how line battles are being run, then LOL. Put simply, as things stand you can't 're-enact' in WoR, simply because you never really have the time to re-form your lines correctly. You can't mess around & number off to form ranks, because of the timers, and that's a GOOD thing, because it all adds to the chaos.

    Re-eactments look orderly because the chief point of them is to show off the weapons,equipment, tactics and, to a limited extent, the combat of a bygone time, they're not recreating the real chaos of battle. If you think a re-enactment is really what a Civil War battle looked like, then you've been misinformed. A good way to find the middle ground is to check out the Gettysburg Cyclorama, a good visual representation of what combat in the Civil War probably did look like. It seems pretty obvious to me, that what the Devs are trying to build here is a team game. They seem to have tapped into the very thing that made powder and ball era combat unique, these actions were won and lost by regiments of men fighting together. Contrary to what seems to be the belief by some players of WoR, Skirmishers were not 'lone wolves' but groups of men who fought as cohesive units. Rather than name servers 'line battle' or 're-enactment' what should really be done is to name servers for players who wish to play as they like....such as 'Anything Goes' or 'Free For All'.

  3. #43

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    @Sox: I never took part in any battle reenactment, but I totally get your point. Bringing together hundreds, if not thousands of reenactors is one thing. Organize the whole crowd is another thing - and setting up a full scale battle is also an entirely different story. I watched some reenactment vids of CW showing battles - and yes: it's hell. I'm quite sure the only difference between a real battle and a reenacted one is blood, guts, shattered bones and casualties. The chaos is still the same.

    That being said I wrote down some stuff a few posts earlier about line battles.
    For instance, in a real fighting environment, neither COs nor NCOs had time to "dress their line" in an orderly fashion after taking casualties. I'm quite sure neither Prussians nor British Units did that, and we all know those guys had discipline and drill close to perfection. Yankees and Rebs? Not all of them got a proper training, not all got through that drill ...
    What I wanna say: if the officer in charge orders "dress the line left" after taking casualties, I will obey that order. However, that doesn't mean it's what they did in the real CW back then. Taking casualties usually meant the line started to show holes here and there. As long as it didn't reduce combat efficiency, no one gave the order to "dress a line" 'cuz that means the soldiers would have to look for a new spot, couldn't reload their muskets in time, had to aim anew etc - all that was taking valuable time the enemy used to return fire. And if the defense of the Little Round Top of the 20th Maine was displayed remotely correctly, officers rather used reserve units to plug holes instead of moving the entire line to close those holes. Also, the attacking Rebs simply gave up using a line formation. They had a column until contact, the entire formation fell apart and they started skirmishing. The entire advance of the Confederates simply stopped looking pretty - they simply fought and hoped to survive that carnage. Also Pickett's Charge: yes, they did the whole in-formation-charge - and paid dearly for that. Now imagine if they'd used a lose skirmishing formation ... they might have done more damage and taken less casualties before arriving at the "High Water Mark".

    And yes, can sign the rest of your post.
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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sox View Post
    Amusing.

    I was a re-enactor for the best part of fifteen years, and I should add here that I'm English, and that most events I took part in were in Britain. Most, but not all, I've done three events in the States (most notable during the filming of Pickets Charge in Killer Angels/Gettysburg). So first of all let's kill a myth that seems rampant on these forums, EVERY re-enactment I've done has been chaos. Now I was just a lowly Sgt, so I was never privvy to 'the plan', but even those who were officers would more than likely say the same thing. Most of you seem to think that re-enactors stand in perfectly formed ranks and fire guns.......NOT the case lol, after the first 'casualties' it's pretty much just bedlam. Also, for the benefit of sal_tuskin ''the actual line battle lasts about 5min then one company wants to go flank and shoot into the side'', flanking was used in real Civil War battles lol, a line battle does NOT mean standing in lines facing each other all the time......and if that's how line battles are being run, then LOL. Put simply, as things stand you can't 're-enact' in WoR, simply because you never really have the time to re-form your lines correctly. You can't mess around & number off to form ranks, because of the timers, and that's a GOOD thing, because it all adds to the chaos.

    Re-eactments look orderly because the chief point of them is to show off the weapons,equipment, tactics and, to a limited extent, the combat of a bygone time, they're not recreating the real chaos of battle. If you think a re-enactment is really what a Civil War battle looked like, then you've been misinformed. A good way to find the middle ground is to check out the Gettysburg Cyclorama, a good visual representation of what combat in the Civil War probably did look like. It seems pretty obvious to me, that what the Devs are trying to build here is a team game. They seem to have tapped into the very thing that made powder and ball era combat unique, these actions were won and lost by regiments of men fighting together. Contrary to what seems to be the belief by some players of WoR, Skirmishers were not 'lone wolves' but groups of men who fought as cohesive units. Rather than name servers 'line battle' or 're-enactment' what should really be done is to name servers for players who wish to play as they like....such as 'Anything Goes' or 'Free For All'.
    Thank you so much for bringing this up. I reenact as well. I hate people who think we trying to reenact on here. All we want is a little order, so there isn’t absolute chaos. The only time we’d “reenact” on this game is if we do something for the anniversary of Antietam. Also battle aren’t run like line battles to begin with. They used to be ages ago, but me and Paioletti of the 6th LA changed it to include multiple lines, skirmishers, cover, etc. There are three kinds of people currently: people who want this to be like Civil War CoD, people who want to play like it should be played, and people who want to reenact. For as long as I’ve had my unit we’ve never once had a pretty line as we fought on. Line battle events suck, which is why I just want what we currently do to be refered as just a battle. Not mixed up with the ages old line battle event.

  5. #45

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    Seems I'm somewhere between type 2 and type 3 (how the game should be played and reenactment). So far, it worked well for me
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  6. #46

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    I will admit to telling people to dress the line when they are no longer in formation and would hurt our side upon their soon to be death.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwingKid148 View Post
    I will admit to telling people to dress the line when they are no longer in formation and would hurt our side upon their soon to be death.
    That's okay
    I was referring to line battles when the officer in charge loves dressing the line after each incoming volley.

    Still: why don't we keep 5 ... 10 soldiers in reserve, so we can plug the holes?
    Also - and that's just my idea: I definitely want to see one additional rule that says reinforcements etc can only go to their line if a CO / NCO is present leading them. I know we had that rule one some events and I liked it ...
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  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptData View Post
    That's okay


    Still: why don't we keep 5 ... 10 soldiers in reserve, so we can plug the holes?
    Also - and that's just my idea: I definitely want to see one additional rule that says reinforcements etc can only go to their line if a CO / NCO is present leading them.

    1. In line battles you need all the rifles you can muster to shoot down on the enemy (especially now with the new suppression system), usually keeping officer class and flag bearers low.
    2. There use to be some kind of agreement that you could only bring up a minimum of 5 people to reinforce the line. (now you need officers escorts )

    @Cpt.Data : I also have been reading on your post about the use of an actual 'line' in battle.
    -> Some see the early battles as a more like 'oldskool' formation battle, part of the community preferred having CSA vs UNION formed up nicely and shooting it out.
    -> There where some discussions on the usage of secondary lines or the use of skirmishers. (that's why those events usually get talked over in forehand )
    Last edited by Redleader; 08-19-2018 at 11:00 PM.

  9. #49

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    Realism Vs Gaming is never an easy subject to come to terms with, or to agree on. The simplist way to do it in game would be to fight in two ranks (if you have enough men) with the rear rank stepping forwards to fill the gaps and if your re-spawns are not reaching the line in time, and you get down to a single rank....THEN dress left to fill the gaps, once reinforcements can spawn on the flag this will all be easier. IF you try to do things EXACTLY the same way as stated in Hardee's and Gillams then it will get far too complicated for a game, the business of killing the enemy must come first, which brings us to the next point.

    The primary reason for fighting in ranks (as most of you know) was to focus/concentrate the fire of innacurate weapons. By the time of the Civil War this had begun to change but was still relevant. The reason Union Artillery out shot Confederate Artillery was, in most part, due to concentrated fire for example. In counter battery actions all six guns of a Union battery would fire at one Confederate gun at a time, the same kind of thing applies to Infantry fire. The main problem with this, in game terms, is that your lines do not comprise upwards of a thousand men. Put simply, it's almost impossible to re-create. So the simple answer is, don't try. You need your NCO's to be firing their weapons, not worrying about straight lines, because you do not have a thousand men. Train your company to fill the gaps when they appear, and to dress left when needed, and you won't need your NCO's giving pointless orders. Keep the semblance of a line, it doesn't have to be straight and orderly, you're not on parade. In game terms,as well as real life, a well trained line of Infantry should be able to kill far more enemy than a skirmish line....focus fire, you've all seen some devastating volleys I'm sure.

    Find the middle ground between realism and game, it's not hard to do, be practical. Men who want to be out there 'on their own', make them Skirmishers, adapt. One last point, and probably the most important one, you've ALL got to stick together. WoR is going to need lots of bodies, on maps, to be relevant. Realistically you don't NEED seperate maps for those who do not want to fight as line infantry, you'll have Cavalry, you'll have Skirmishers, for those who want a role that is less regimented than that of line infantry. Stick together, it's really not rocket science guys.
    Last edited by Sox; 08-19-2018 at 11:13 PM.

  10. #50

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    COD babies doing the old solo-flanking Kamikaze shenanigans is generally bad in this game, I say this as somebody who was an offender of this notion. Part of this comes from playing a game with very few players and then a whole bunch joining without you realizing it. Especially for the new players, it can come as a surprise. A welcome one, until you realize you've been placed in the middle of no-mans-land with no idea of what is going on!

    The number one goal should be not dying, if only there was a way to put more emphasis on that. Maybe if you die out of line with no teammates around you the respawn takes longer, maybe varying depending on how many people are in the game.

    Getting the handful of rogue guys to organize and safely flank during an event is better than a bunch of unorganized idiots constantly charging in. They feed the enemy, barely, if even, get a kill & completely undermine the regiments who trained for the battle. These players, the Newcomers, the people who never use a mic, or players who boot the game up once in a blue moon and aren't part of a regiment... need a regiment, formed on the spot, with a voice to guide them and a name. I refer to them as the rogue regiment, or the ghost regiment. It would be good to inform new players of this concept and generally have somebody willing to direct them. Telling people to get out of your line is great but they do need somewhere to go after the fact. When I first started playing with groups of people some of the leaders had really good mics and seemed so professional, like voice actors for NPCs. The authenticity the community holds can make the experience seem so cinematic that they don't feel real, that you can do anything, that its just a single-player game.

    I think server rules are great, I am generally opposed to closed servers because it will divide the community and drive others away. Getting in coherent communication with the newcomers & intermittent players is key.
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