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Thread: Fresh Idea for skirmishes

  1. #61

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    Though I am a fan of coming up with ideas to improve the game. I Feel focus should remain on fixing an polishing what is already there. As much as I respect and admire all developers here for all their effort and hard work, I personally feel that this game becomes too focused on the future and aesthetics. It doesn't resolve issues we have here and now. The crash rate is just too high ,for example, and the volume (as mentioned several times) really needs a slider so we can adjust it. New maps or game modes would be awesome, but I am a fan of ensuring that the game mode and gameplay as it stands right now gets polished until we take further steps. There's no point in adding maps or game modes as long as our games crashes or freezes at least once. I understand we can't expect a flawless game in this stage of the development but I feel we can assess and evaluate what we have (and thus: what we need) a lot better once the issues at hand get fixed.

    That being said, I like Max's idea of adding more caption points and thus adding to the dynamics of the game. I also think that suggestions like these should be implemented at a relatively soon stage anyway. Much like what Stone is implying (having the time and possibility to adapt while it is still in Alpha) I think we need to take advantage of the game being at this early stage and just try multiple different things every now and then to see how the game would run and how the game can improve.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Decimus Meridius View Post
    but it's a long road until we can get the Battle Mode right?

    it's hard to hold people active which you may have also noticed in the last stress test which it was hard to hit 100. some months ago we were happy to be the last of 150.

    Some fresh wind would motivate people to stay and keep testing.

    A lot of people appreciate drilling more than skirmishing which should be like that (even if I like it as a company commander ^^ )

    EDIT:

    to Hagerstown

    yeah of course its possible but it can be very frustrating as a union guy because you are visible and under fire since spawn. It's hard to rally the men and coordinate.


    This is just an idea, but what if we as companies began to post the actual drop in active numbers? Not in a shaming way, not in a look my company is better, but in a way that actually show the disinterest in the game? (Also it was made elsewhere in this thread that you have to equate steam summer sale, ect. into the the drop.) But I think right now this lack of interest or having peoples walk away from the game is something that we as players and leadership in companies feel, not the devs. We are the foundation of the core players who help continue the testing for the devs...without players no testing...

  3. #63
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheReverendKoch View Post
    This is just an idea, but what if we as companies began to post the actual drop in active numbers? Not in a shaming way, not in a look my company is better, but in a way that actually show the disinterest in the game? (Also it was made elsewhere in this thread that you have to equate steam summer sale, ect. into the the drop.) But I think right now this lack of interest or having peoples walk away from the game is something that we as players and leadership in companies feel, not the devs. We are the foundation of the core players who help continue the testing for the devs...without players no testing...
    We very much feel when changes in the community happen.

    We monitor server activity every day (especially at weekends), we compare monthly new backers constantly with previous months, etc.

    Here's my take on it (I've been holding off a bit to see what you guys had in mind - thanks for posting!).

    The past few weeks we've had several nasty server crash issues, especially at high loads i.e. during events (this is possibly fixed now - the tests this weekend will reveal if it is). This has caused a growing disinterest which is very natural (we're just as frustrated when the server crash as you guys). We've also had about 50% less new backers the past month compared to the three previous months which were all record months for us - this means less new blood into the alpha that you've perhaps gotten used to - this could be seen as a decline in numbers (although it is really a decline in backers).

    There is also the ongoing Steam summer sale which always draws a lot of guys into other games. Then there is the fact that the summer itself has kicked off. People tend to play less during the summer. Then there is the general fatigue of the alpha - we realize this and thank you for your posts regarding it. Many of you who experience the fatigue have spent hundreds of hours in the alpha - and hundreds of hours in a game without it feeling repetitive is no easy task (it happens to most games). Add to that that this is an incomplete, crashing, buggy, glitchy alpha and the drop off rate will naturally be even higher.

    All of the above plays into what you guys are currently experiencing. It is not a set thing (at least I don't think it is). Fancy and myself have spent quite a few hours discussing game design the past few days thanks to this post so thank you for putting it in focus.

    Most of our areas are very open ones - the capture areas and the fences (as pretty much everything else) is there because that was where it was back then. Being bound to the historical accuracy which we strive for, it is not possible for us to remove a fenceline at a particular position, nor is it possible to move the capture area a great deal (wouldn't be properly representing the fighting and the objectives of the fighting that took place there if we did). We'll look into giving projectiles a better chance at penetrating the wood fences as we too feel they are currently eating too many shots. We will also look into possibly changing some of the map boundaries slightly but we don't believe this will have a giant effect on the actual tactics of the areas themselves. The thing about the capture zone is that it is sometimes being seen more as THE objective by the players than AN objective. The capture area is there to ensure the defending team can't sit and hide somewhere not at all meant for fighting, for the possibility of a quick win by the attackers and for ensuring the tactical advancements are made with more thought put into them than just "we should kill those guys". It is just as good to win on morale - this can be done by outflanking the defenders (especially if they make mistakes and don't shift along your own forces). We're currently considering how to better convey this to the players as we feel like some will only see the capture area icon and go for that no matter what each time they attack. A successful attack can be both an actual push to the cap area AND an effective flank move where you manage to kill a great deal of the defenders before you are overcome (defenders always having lower morale than the attackers).


    On a somewhat similar note:

    We're currently looking into possibly implementing end game events as we feel like the endings of the skirmish areas currently often do not end as we'd like it to end. While this is not something that has been brought up by any of you, we think it an integral part of the gameplay experience of winning/losing a match.

    Below is the WIP design description:

    Game ending events:Currently there is too much of a disconnect between the outcome of a match and the reality for the players (think standing in a perfectly fine line as a defender and then you suddenly lose because one guy somewhere got killed and lost you the last bit of morale - “why did we lose? We’re still all (mostly) here in perfectly fine fighting condition.”).

    Last Stand

    Defender reaches 0 morale: Last stand is activated. This means every dead person is spawned right away but no more respawns are available after. The round ends when the match timer runs out or the attacker has captured the area or killed all defenders.

    Final Push

    Attacker reaches 0 morale: Final push is activated. This makes respawning for the attackers cost 0 morale but changes the timer on the round from, for instance, 22 mins remaining to 3 minutes remaining. Round ends when area is captured or the defenders has gone through their last respawns in their last stand.

    - Trusty



  4. #64

    CSA Captain

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    We very much feel when changes in the community happen.

    We monitor server activity every day (especially at weekends), we compare monthly new backers constantly with previous months, etc.

    Here's my take on it (I've been holding off a bit to see what you guys had in mind - thanks for posting!).

    The past few weeks we've had several nasty server crash issues, especially at high loads i.e. during events (this is possibly fixed now - the tests this weekend will reveal if it is). This has caused a growing disinterest which is very natural (we're just as frustrated when the server crash as you guys). We've also had about 50% less new backers the past month compared to the three previous months which were all record months for us - this means less new blood into the alpha that you've perhaps gotten used to - this could be seen as a decline in numbers (although it is really a decline in backers).

    There is also the ongoing Steam summer sale which always draws a lot of guys into other games. Then there is the fact that the summer itself has kicked off. People tend to play less during the summer. Then there is the general fatigue of the alpha - we realize this and thank you for your posts regarding it. Many of you who experience the fatigue have spent hundreds of hours in the alpha - and hundreds of hours in a game without it feeling repetitive is no easy task (it happens to most games). Add to that that this is an incomplete, crashing, buggy, glitchy alpha and the drop off rate will naturally be even higher.

    All of the above plays into what you guys are currently experiencing. It is not a set thing (at least I don't think it is). Fancy and myself have spent quite a few hours discussing game design the past few days thanks to this post so thank you for putting it in focus.

    Most of our areas are very open ones - the capture areas and the fences (as pretty much everything else) is there because that was where it was back then. Being bound to the historical accuracy which we strive for, it is not possible for us to remove a fenceline at a particular position, nor is it possible to move the capture area a great deal (wouldn't be properly representing the fighting and the objectives of the fighting that took place there if we did). We'll look into giving projectiles a better chance at penetrating the wood fences as we too feel they are currently eating too many shots. We will also look into possibly changing some of the map boundaries slightly but we don't believe this will have a giant effect on the actual tactics of the areas themselves. The thing about the capture zone is that it is sometimes being seen more as THE objective by the players than AN objective. The capture area is there to ensure the defending team can't sit and hide somewhere not at all meant for fighting, for the possibility of a quick win by the attackers and for ensuring the tactical advancements are made with more thought put into them than just "we should kill those guys". It is just as good to win on morale - this can be done by outflanking the defenders (especially if they make mistakes and don't shift along your own forces). We're currently considering how to better convey this to the players as we feel like some will only see the capture area icon and go for that no matter what each time they attack. A successful attack can be both an actual push to the cap area AND an effective flank move where you manage to kill a great deal of the defenders before you are overcome (defenders always having lower morale than the attackers).


    On a somewhat similar note:

    We're currently looking into possibly implementing end game events as we feel like the endings of the skirmish areas currently often do not end as we'd like it to end. While this is not something that has been brought up by any of you, we think it an integral part of the gameplay experience of winning/losing a match.

    Below is the WIP design description:

    Game ending events:Currently there is too much of a disconnect between the outcome of a match and the reality for the players (think standing in a perfectly fine line as a defender and then you suddenly lose because one guy somewhere got killed and lost you the last bit of morale - “why did we lose? We’re still all (mostly) here in perfectly fine fighting condition.”).

    Last Stand

    Defender reaches 0 morale: Last stand is activated. This means every dead person is spawned right away but no more respawns are available after. The round ends when the match timer runs out or the attacker has captured the area or killed all defenders.

    Final Push

    Attacker reaches 0 morale: Final push is activated. This makes respawning for the attackers cost 0 morale but changes the timer on the round from, for instance, 22 mins remaining to 3 minutes remaining. Round ends when area is captured or the defenders has gone through their last respawns in their last stand.

    - Trusty


    Current situation does not portray the overall feeling as stated before. Yes it does not help the summer and sale etc. I think everyone is happy if we have fences that let more bullets through.

    I know everyone will be happy when we can spawn in with our own companies.

    But above all you see people wondering about different ways of playing the game. Trying out new stuff to see if that enhances the game play and fun.
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/699085729942208593/720251201278705674/pelhams-sig.png

  5. #65

    CSA Major General

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post

    Last Stand

    Defender reaches 0 morale: Last stand is activated. This means every dead person is spawned right away but no more respawns are available after. The round ends when the match timer runs out or the attacker has captured the area or killed all defenders.

    Final Push

    Attacker reaches 0 morale: Final push is activated. This makes respawning for the attackers cost 0 morale but changes the timer on the round from, for instance, 22 mins remaining to 3 minutes remaining. Round ends when area is captured or the defenders has gone through their last respawns in their last stand.

    - Trusty


    I like the idea of 'game modes' which could help dynamics, I do have a few questions (as usual) :

    Last stand :


    • where would these respawns spawn ? On big maps spawning on 'spawn' could prove counterproductive ? -< In some games a 'commander' would set a point for respawns or people would spawn on 'squad leaders'.


    Final stand :


    • This could prevent long waits when both factions are playing morale conservering (for example both breaking which makes it also kinda exiting)
    • It would mean that attackers can keep respawning until the 3 minutes run out which could also trigger last stand for defenders*. (so a more aggressive approach could pay off ?)


    * Could mean that some of the defenders hide themselves or fall back in the hope there is no time to 'cap' before timer runs out (See tactics on Burnsides and Hooker's push map when CSA is breaking but Union can't cap in time)

  6. #66

    CSA Major General

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchconfederate View Post
    Current situation does not portray the overall feeling as stated before. ...

    But above all you see people wondering about different ways of playing the game. Trying out new stuff to see if that enhances the game play and fun.
    Good point, I would also like to point out that 'fun' can be a big incentive for players to play a game -> now the game sometimes plays us -> we adapt to the map and game mechanics in order to achieve victory while less focusing on people having fun and getting that intensive feeling.

  7. #67

    CSA Captain

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    Now I would also like to comment on this important topic.

    First of all I totally agree with maximus and his main topic, and of course with the statements of many others before.

    War of Rights is characterised by its attention to detail and its exemplary implementation of historical circumstances. This is also the reason why we, the community, appreciate this game. We love history and its events, but War of Rights should not be reduced to a repetition of what has already happened. You should also give players the opportunity to give their side, to which they have dedicated themselves with strength and sweat, the chance to win if they have shown themselves to be superior on the battlefield. Of course, this also includes cases that do not correspond to historical events. Whether reenactment or alternative history, as such a large and committed project you should not exclude any possibility and thus allow everyone his preferred way of playing. Therefore a wide game mode might be suitable to provide something like an alternative history scenario
    (example "Harper's Ferry") and whereas the previous historical mode could be used to simulate the battles after known course.

    Best regards,
    W.L.L. von-Winkler
    Captain Walter, Leopold, Lothar von-Winkler

  8. #68

    USA Brigadier General

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    Being bound to the historical accuracy which we strive for, it is not possible for us to remove a fenceline at a particular position

    - Trusty
    so please make a fenceline not so superior. Every time you get a feeling that you kill nobody who is hiding behind a fence even if it is a fence with huge gaps. thats frustrating.


    to come back at the removing capture areas.

    I think that it will works. I see a lot people here who were part of the NW community for years like me and have over 1000 hours in it. Most of the time they played battles without capture zones and time limits only tickets or in our case the moral would limit it.

    the map and geography makes the rules who attacks and how defends. and the artillery. you may have a great position behind a fence or on top of a hill but if the enemy artillery can hit you, you have to advance and get the enemy artillery which is protected my it's infantry.

    I know that you don't like this comparison me too. but thats a system which works and make a lot of fun when you have organised units playing it. You will see officer meeting to plan the engagement and formation of the companies.

    At least you could give it a try

    It may not work properly with people without a company but it will be perfect for companies which I think form a very big part in this community and game.


    And thank you for your answer Trusty
    http://www.warofrightsforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=522&dateline=14500460  02


  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by C. Moser View Post
    You are not alone Major, trust me. Also, you and your boys are great man.
    Thanks my man, you guys are top notch as well!
    1st Maryland is pretty cool, ya know?

  10. #70

    USA Captain


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    I for one am totally ok with marching for hours, as this is basically what a private like me does.

    I also don't mind the objective being difficult to take, as that is what a defensive position does.

    I do agree that larger maps, allowing for more diverse tactics, would be nice though.

    Apart from that, I'm not too unhappy!
    Last edited by WeeFilly; 07-06-2018 at 07:24 PM.

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