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Thread: Burnsides Bridge/River Crossing: Two weeks into EA

  1. #1

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    Burnsides Bridge/River Crossing: Two weeks into EA

    We've had time now to evaluate maps on a much grander scale, and with the larger numbers of unaffiliated players, Company play, and flag spawning taken into account, Burnsides Bridge and River Crossing begin to show their faults.

    Burnsides Bridge suffers from a new meta, in which the Union hurries a flag across the bridge, hides to replenish, and then begins to maneuver throughout the fields, cutting off the Confederates and their spawn. Normally, maneuver warfare would work to repel the Union, but the current ticket situation for the CSA heavily hampers this idea. The South simply cannot compete against the North in a prolonged shootout on Burnsides.

    My proposed solution: Add fordable areas alongside the bridge for the Union, while pushing the desert boundary for the Confederates to the Yanks end of the bridge. Create rifle pits on the western portion of the Confederates side of the bridge, overlooking the bridge. By adding the fordable areas of the river, you give the Union another lane of approach with cover, protecting them and allowing them to get more men over the river, faster. By pushing the desert boundary further up to the bridge and adding rifle pits, we give the Confederates an initial defensible staging area that isn't OP(as going too far over the bridge leaves you vulnerable to Yankee rifles and the ford would allow another option,) while the rifle pits give the Confederates a valuable second defensive line.

    River Crossing suffers from another problem: Its simply bad for business. The Confederates have two options to cross, but both are open with little cover, the Union can camp the ends of both bridges, and a horrendous barrage of artillery does very little to dissuade the yanks, while giving them a pounding headache. The solution to River Crossing is harder to find, but I think we can start by toning down the Star Destroyer orbital strike we call the artillery barrage. Secondly, we should push the desert boundary for the Yankees back a bit, cutting off the rail bridge entirely and stopping them at the L-shaped stone wall. This gives them a defensible position, while making it much easier for the Confederates to cross. Next, we make the end of the pontoon bridge inaccessible to the Yankees. Finally, we move the capture point of Harper's Ferry further into town, placing it square in the center of the T-Junction. The Union becomes vulnerable from the pontoon side, while remaining strong on the rail. Should the pontoon fall however, the stone wall at the rail becomes increasingly dangerous for defenders.

    These are just my thoughts, and as always I welcome discussion.
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  2. #2

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    Gonna bump this, cause why not.
    Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by LaBelle View Post
    We've had time now to evaluate maps on a much grander scale, and with the larger numbers of unaffiliated players, Company play, and flag spawning taken into account, Burnsides Bridge and River Crossing begin to show their faults.

    Burnsides Bridge suffers from a new meta, in which the Union hurries a flag across the bridge, hides to replenish, and then begins to maneuver throughout the fields, cutting off the Confederates and their spawn. Normally, maneuver warfare would work to repel the Union, but the current ticket situation for the CSA heavily hampers this idea. The South simply cannot compete against the North in a prolonged shootout on Burnsides.

    My proposed solution: Add fordable areas alongside the bridge for the Union, while pushing the desert boundary for the Confederates to the Yanks end of the bridge. Create rifle pits on the western portion of the Confederates side of the bridge, overlooking the bridge. By adding the fordable areas of the river, you give the Union another lane of approach with cover, protecting them and allowing them to get more men over the river, faster. By pushing the desert boundary further up to the bridge and adding rifle pits, we give the Confederates an initial defensible staging area that isn't OP(as going too far over the bridge leaves you vulnerable to Yankee rifles and the ford would allow another option,) while the rifle pits give the Confederates a valuable second defensive line.

    River Crossing suffers from another problem: Its simply bad for business. The Confederates have two options to cross, but both are open with little cover, the Union can camp the ends of both bridges, and a horrendous barrage of artillery does very little to dissuade the yanks, while giving them a pounding headache. The solution to River Crossing is harder to find, but I think we can start by toning down the Star Destroyer orbital strike we call the artillery barrage. Secondly, we should push the desert boundary for the Yankees back a bit, cutting off the rail bridge entirely and stopping them at the L-shaped stone wall. This gives them a defensible position, while making it much easier for the Confederates to cross. Next, we make the end of the pontoon bridge inaccessible to the Yankees. Finally, we move the capture point of Harper's Ferry further into town, placing it square in the center of the T-Junction. The Union becomes vulnerable from the pontoon side, while remaining strong on the rail. Should the pontoon fall however, the stone wall at the rail becomes increasingly dangerous for defenders.

    These are just my thoughts, and as always I welcome discussion.
    The main way to prevent the Union from being able to camp the Confederate spawn if they have a flag haul ass is to simply modify the desertion boundaries of the Union so that they cannot get behind the stone wall near the orchard and have their flag hide there. That spot is the only area that provides total concealment, which in the context of War of Rights right now, means the Confederates are SOL when it comes to dealing with that. Just make that whole are out of bounds. It's not unfair, fixes that issue, and the confederates have received the same treatment on maps that have spots that allow them to gain an incredibly unfair advantage because of the boundaries (If I remember correctly, Confederates could get onto the bridge on Burnside bridge.).

    As for River Crossing/Harpers Ferry in general, I think some of the skirmish areas should just be made one in the town. For example, Shenandoah street I think it is called, which is no more than sixty or so feet behind the bridge crossing map, should be blended with bridge crossing and have the point farther back instead of having the tiny tiny map of Shenandoah street that just becomes a total cluster-fuck of madness. Some of the other skirmish areas may want that treatment as well because in my opinion, Harpers Ferry could provide some of the most interesting gameplay if the maps were blended or when we finally get larger multi-point maps implemented. But, knowing some of this stuff is far off, I do agree with the artillery going from Battle of the Somme levels to more like other maps.

  4. #4

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    It might be time to move the borders on Burnside Bridge back to where they were before. I don't think CS was ever able to go over the bridge but they could go into the road. Not sure what else could be done for it with such a small area to fight in. The Union wasn't able to take the area until Toombs pulled his men out due to Rodman crossing on his right and being low on ammo. Maybe if the Snavely's Ford area was added in where the Union can flank around on the LONG route to the ford, then let the CS have access to the road.

  5. #5

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    There are a lot of maps in War of Rights and a lot of 'unfairness' for both sides depending on the map. How the Union is supposed to defend the Cornfield is beyond my understanding particularly when people with low graphics can see through it. In real life the corn was 4-5 feet tall not the 7-8 feet it is now. If it were low like it should be we could see Confederate movements. I can go on about other maps too but I just try to tell myself that these maps somehow balance themselves out overall.

    On Burnside Bridge it could be that the Confederate access point is moved up to the road at the end of the bridge. Of course you guys could just form a double-rank firing squad there that would decimate us as we're trying to come across but we could try it and see. I think what's changed that map and many of them for that matter is the ability to spawn on flags. Other than that it was a tough map for the Union to win back in the day with that far spawn and the inability to gain a foothold and keep it before our numbers were whittled down.

    I think we can all agree that both the Union and Confederate sides are going to have maps where they are at the disadvantage. But like any commanders would have in the war, an adjustment of tactics can sometimes fix said problems. That's not always the case but it often is.

  6. #6

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    They could always open up the map like it was irl. What I mean bu this is remove alot of the vegetation on the left flank where the 20th Georgia was, irl this part of the heights was rather bare and there weren't many trees. This would make it harder for union flag bearers to find a spot before getting killed.

    Also while they're at it they should add in the stone wall that was on the heights as well so the Georgians have better protection instead of standing out on the side of the hill which never happened irl.

    The Georgians were well defended irl with stone walls, rifle pits, and rock quarry to provide protection from union fire.
    Jesse S. Crosby, 20th Georgia Infantry, July 15, 1861 - May 6, 1864

    Samuel T. McKenzie, 20th Georgia Infantry, July 15, 1861 - September 2, 1862

    Joseph C. McKenzie, 20th Georgia Infantry, July 15, 1861 - October 1, 1863

    Henry C. McKenzie, 3rd Georgia Infantry, June 1, 1861 - January 28, 1863

    Charles R. Beddingfield, 38th Alabama Infantry

    Samuel L. Cowart, Cobb's Legion

  7. #7

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    Was looking over images. Feels more like the modern look instead of the period look.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravescot View Post
    Was looking over images. Feels more like the modern look instead of the period look.
    There's too much vegetation on the current map to the left of the bridge.
    Also during the battle the hill was much steeper from what I've read/heard, they leveled it a bit when they put in the Burnside bridge road.

    Of course the map in-game doesnt reflect the actual geography of the battlefield, I'm assuming this is due to scaling of the map in certain areas.
    Last edited by Legion; 12-24-2018 at 09:21 PM.
    Jesse S. Crosby, 20th Georgia Infantry, July 15, 1861 - May 6, 1864

    Samuel T. McKenzie, 20th Georgia Infantry, July 15, 1861 - September 2, 1862

    Joseph C. McKenzie, 20th Georgia Infantry, July 15, 1861 - October 1, 1863

    Henry C. McKenzie, 3rd Georgia Infantry, June 1, 1861 - January 28, 1863

    Charles R. Beddingfield, 38th Alabama Infantry

    Samuel L. Cowart, Cobb's Legion

  9. #9
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    Part of the hill is a car park now.

  10. #10
    The very top is but I don't know how much that changed the slope overlooking the bridge.

    One thing I notice with the maps is that the battlefield look tends to look a lot like the way it looks modernly, especially with regard to the fences and they're condition at the time of the battle vs modern day although I'm sure a lot of effort was made not to do that. In some cases you don't have good photos or maps to choose from. For example the park service just replaced the fence along the Hagerstown Road (the famous photos of Confederate dead taken along it) with a more historical six rail fence over the old five-one they had there. In the game we have five rails.
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