Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: Artillery in other games

  1. #1

    Artillery in other games

    https://steamcommunity.com/games/686...52169974055914

    Thoughts on how Hell Let Loose did this? Anything that could possibly be transferred to War of Rights' artillery?

  2. #2
    They have mortars that are operated by a single player in another WWII game called Darkest Hour. It'd be a tremendously ungratifying thing without a kill feed. You're basically feeling around dropping shells and looking at the kill feed for your name (hoping not to see friendly fire). Hopefully the person playing the spotter is doing their job. If they are, you see marks of where you hit on the map. I liked playing the class because it was challenging.

    Fortunately we're talking about direct-fire here and not indirect.

    Whatever they do you should have to do all the tasks associated with firing required. So you can load and fire by yourself but good luck positioning it or moving it forward after the recoil and performing the essential steps of reloading it, time consuming and dangerous when done alone. Anybody up against manned guns should have the ability to fight back effectively. All to kill one guy behind a gun firing direct fire? I don't think so. There should be a crew, realistically. That's not an easy thing to model. Personally I think it's insane but anything less would be a disappointment.

    My main concern is on moving, which these batteries did a lot more than people believe, and on projectile penetration, destruction of carriages and horses, fences being dismantled for maneuver, and fuzes. And solid shot. I never realized how much solid shot was used until the last few years. I don't know the types of projectiles used by quantity but I think the reliance on solid shot would surprise a lot of folks.

    Imagine the guns just stationary like they are with no variance to the fuzes? A guy could get so good he can blind fire to hit targets somewhere, knowing the fuze needed to hit the opposing battery.

    Artillery is like making a whole new game within a game. That's why you often see it done poorly.
    Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 12-21-2018 at 02:57 AM.
    Gameplay Suggestions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjUuaVXTJsY


    Old Pennsylvania Discord: https://discord.gg/MjxfZ5n

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    They have mortars that are operated by a single player in another WWII game called Darkest Hour. It'd be a tremendously ungratifying thing without a kill feed. You're basically feeling around dropping shells and looking at the kill feed for your name (hoping not to see friendly fire). Hopefully the person playing the spotter is doing their job. If they are, you see marks of where you hit on the map. I liked playing the class because it was challenging.

    Fortunately we're talking about direct-fire here and not indirect.

    Whatever they do you should have to do all the tasks associated with firing required. So you can load and fire by yourself but good luck positioning it or moving it forward after the recoil and performing the essential steps of reloading it, time consuming and dangerous when done alone. Anybody up against manned guns should have the ability to fight back effectively. All to kill one guy behind a gun firing direct fire? I don't think so. There should be a crew, realistically. That's not an easy thing to model. Personally I think it's insane but anything less would be a disappointment.

    My main concern is on moving, which these batteries did a lot more than people believe, and on projectile penetration, destruction of carriages and horses, fences being dismantled for maneuver, and fuzes. And solid shot. I never realized how much solid shot was used until the last few years. I don't know the types of projectiles used by quantity but I think the reliance on solid shot would surprise a lot of folks.

    Imagine the guns just stationary like they are with no variance to the fuzes? A guy could get so good he can blind fire to hit targets somewhere, knowing the fuze needed to hit the opposing battery.

    Artillery is like making a whole new game within a game. That's why you often see it done poorly.
    Mortars are done in Post Scriptum and Squad as well, both the exact same way, I think it's done pretty well there.

    I agree there should be a crew, but, I think HLL did a good job of blending some of the smaller roles so that the size of an average artillery crew goes from 4-6 roughly down to two. I think a civil war artillery crew could be taken down from seven, to four or three.

    As for movement, it could be done where the commander has a certain area where he can place his artillery wherever he chooses within that area, to provide some variation, before the match starts.

  4. #4
    When it comes to artillery the issue this and other line games face is the lack of overall players and density of formations compared to the real battles. Artillery wouldn’t have been used much in ‘skirmishes’.

    I’m not sure if they plan to crew them with historical numbers (8 per artillery piece), but if they do they’ll have to kill a lot of guys to justify taking those 8 crew off the infantry lines where each might kill several men if they were infantry.

    We also need to make sure that it’s not too frustrating for players to suddenly die all the time and face that morale screen from a random blast a long distance away. That’s not a very gratifying playing experience if it happens too regularly.

    To be honest, I would be perfectly happy if artillery remained AI.

  5. #5

    CSA Captain

    Dutchconfederate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Den Haag / The Hague
    Posts
    376
    I rather have player operated artillery so its less random then this AI thing we have going on... Rather have less shots falling compared to AI barrages and have us players actually trying to hit something then for no particular reason and without knowing from which side the AI is shooting we players have that coordination. The random shots falling in random places just feels crap compared the the infantry trying to work together and move out with a plan.
    3 should be fine to handle a piece
    Last edited by Dutchconfederate; 12-21-2018 at 10:11 AM.

  6. #6

    USA General of the Army

    Oleander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    646
    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    My main concern is on moving, which these batteries did a lot more than people believe, and on projectile penetration, destruction of carriages and horses, fences being dismantled for maneuver, and fuzes. And solid shot. I never realized how much solid shot was used until the last few years. I don't know the types of projectiles used by quantity but I think the reliance on solid shot would surprise a lot of folks.
    I think I had figured up a minimum of 3 guys could work a gun and still be effective. Four if you want mobility so one can stay with the horses. I don't know that they're going to be able to do building or object destruction, not sure how it works in other Cryengine games but I hope we can at least tear down stone walls.

    And solid shot pretty much became the mainstay of both armies because the fuses were so unreliable. A lot of people argue that's why the Confederate artillery wasn't as effective on Day 3 at Gettysburg. They were shooting pretty much straight on, so solid shot damage was minimal. Had they moved the guns where they could shoot down the ranks it would have been a lot more effective.

  7. #7

    CSA Captain

    Sox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    England
    Posts
    399
    I think what we need, as far as artillery is concerned, is a bit more common sense & a little less wishful thinking. For skirmishes it's not a viable option, we have seventy five men per side on a full server, so the first question is; how many can you take away from the infantry side of things to man guns? Then the second question is; how can so few Infantry manage casualties from small arms fire AND Artillery fire? Player run artillery will be a lot more accurate than the AI we have in game right now, I think it's a pipe dream. I've got confidence in Campfire Games, what they have achieved so far is very good indeed, but I think this might be a step too far.

    Having said all of that however, we still have no idea what they have in mind for Historical Mode. To include Artillery and Cavalry it's going to take a lot more than seventy five players per side, that's for certain.
    ''I'm here to play an American Civil War era combat game, not Call of Duty with muskets.''.

  8. #8

    USA General of the Army

    Oleander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    646
    Quote Originally Posted by Sox View Post
    For skirmishes it's not a viable option, we have seventy five men per side on a full server,
    We have 75 per side for now. You also have to consider they will be opening the 4km x 4km map once grand battles become a thing, and artillery will be a necessity at that point. It doesn't necessarily need to be mobile during skirms, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be in yet.

  9. #9

    CSA Captain

    Sox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    England
    Posts
    399
    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    We have 75 per side for now. You also have to consider they will be opening the 4km x 4km map once grand battles become a thing, and artillery will be a necessity at that point. It doesn't necessarily need to be mobile during skirms, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be in yet.
    I could have sworn I just said that in the part of the post you didn't quote.
    ''I'm here to play an American Civil War era combat game, not Call of Duty with muskets.''.

  10. #10

    USA General of the Army

    Oleander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    646
    Quote Originally Posted by Sox View Post
    I could have sworn I just said that in the part of the post you didn't quote.
    And as I said, there are 75 per side now in skirms. Pretty sure they said that will expanded in the future.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •