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Thread: Sharps Rifle and Sharpshooters

  1. #21

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    thomas aagaard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L. Hopper View Post
    it Is possible to hit a Horse drawn artillery piece accurately with the proper training using a 1853 Model Enfield Rifle.
    Outside of a few select units like the USSS and the later CSA sharpshooter battalions the soldiers did not get any proper training.

    In the units that did get proper training it was possible to engage artillery at 500+ yards. Their hit % would be very low, but even loosing a few men, and just as problematic their horses might drive off a battery...
    But at that range the built in "spread" of gun, powder and bullet make sure that no matter how good a marksman you are, hitting is also a question of luck.
    (just like hitting at 400 yards with a M4 and standard 556 ammo involves luck)


    When trying to hit anything at 300 yards or more you need to estimate the range with less than a 50 yard error or you will miss. This is not easy and it give you a much smaller margin compared to modern firearms.



    btw the Pritchett ball was only used for a few years in British service. it was extremely accurate in European climate under perfect conditions, but it was horrible for military use in the rest of the world where it fouled the gun after only a few shots.
    So the British changed to a smaller bullet, that worked almost as well under perfect conditions... but much, much better under battlefield conditions in, say India.,

    This is a very good article about it:
    https://nebula.wsimg.com/a1ee6168412...r6_FopBrwlKo-g

    It also cover the fact that the rifle musket was not a new weapon by 1860 and that Minié do in no way earn the fame he got...
    Thomas Bernstorff Aagaard

  2. #22
    The only two units that were given extra ammunition were the 1st and 2nd USSS. As for the CS units, ammunition was scarce and shooters were tested by live-fire and appointment.

    Please read pages 47 and 48 of your literature provided from Mr. Gibbons, it should state all that is necessary for my previous post except the range claims (arguements can be strewn back and forth on this, but being a student of Mr. Gibbons and have fired the Pritchett rounds he makes, I believe what has been accomplished with the round and 1853 model) and what is written above.
    Last edited by L. Hopper; 01-04-2019 at 07:48 PM.
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  3. #23

    USA General of the Army

    A. P. Hill's Avatar
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    Many times the names sharpshooters was only a name as the troops were not trained as such and required not minimum standard to enlist.

  4. #24
    I can see how the conversation went into the debate about the reality of sharpshooting and sharpshooters in the Civil War, but I'm more concerned about method that the War of Rights developers have used to determine accuracy - especially with the Sharps, but also with other muskets. Again, I can buy the sway, but the fact that when you're aiming at one specific point and pull the trigger, and the bullet lands entirely somewhere else, makes no sense with rifles/rifled muskets. If they were all smooth bore muskets with round balls, I could understand that kind of inaccuracy.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane Meyer View Post
    Poorlaggedman, first of all, good to hear from you. I see you in game a lot. I will tell you that as a member of the 2nd United States Sharpshooters here, I've spent a SIGNIFICANT number of hours trying to figure out some method for consistent results with the Sharps and with other muskets. I've made pretty amazing shots myself on the battlefield and that feels great, but the randomness just doesn't make sense. I have recorded proof of shots I was taking at the shooting range where I was aimed at the top-left of the target at the instant I pulled the trigger and then bullet hit on lower right! I could live with the sway, but the bullet should hit in a line where it came out of the barrel! If the Sharps weren't rifled and fired a round ball, I wouldn't have a complaint.
    I'd recommend getting some friends together and recording being on the receiving end and the giving end of shots and then compiling all that some how to show the inconsistency. I don't know if it would change anything. I believe the developers have added a very slight randomness to bullet trajectory because they felt the game needed it to be playable. I could help if you want.

    A real long time ago I did something on a training map where I stood one place and another guy stood another and we traded shots, which just happened to be with the Sharps. We both struggled immensely from maybe 150 yards but I doubt the problem is as bad as it was back then. I suspected something was terribly broken at the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    F9 takes you straight to a screen where you can examine your kills. Attachment 10316 Alternatively you can just record and forensically analyze whether you hit people or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by A. P. Hill View Post
    Now that's not being friendly.
    It's technically true though
    Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 01-06-2019 at 11:09 PM.
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  6. #26
    With black powder firearms, the longer the range the far more pronounced the parabola of the trajectory, and being a relatively slow round from a rifle musket, the greater the environmental effects. I don't know if wind plays a factor, but range should see a serious effect on the game. I suspect that isn't actually reflected watching in game long range duels between units...there doesn't seem to be a beaten zone effect at long range for volley fire, although lateral accuracy seems pretty reasonable for the era (basically crap by modern nitro standards).

  7. #27
    Hidden Gunman, that's a valid argument in the case I'm trying to make. I'm not sure that it's accurate, but I have no way to test it. I would argue that the real Colonel Hiram Berdan's requirement somewhat refutes what you're saying: "each man had to be able to place ten shots in a circle of 10 inches (250 mm) in diameter from 200 yards (180 m) away." I'm arguing that, at the shooting range in WOR, no one would never be able to meet that requirement because of the inaccuracy of the Sharps as it's built into the game. The bottom line for me is that, if the devs say that the game as they see it requires this inaccuracy in order to maintain fairness, then maybe I could learn to live with that. I'm just looking for an explanation from them as to why it's so inaccurate.

  8. #28
    Shooting is tough and games just simulate one basic part, looking down the sights. The sight picture you see is going to change each time you look at it and people even report front or rear sight aperture disappearing altogether under stress. The game doesn't make you line up the sight picture and if you watch there is a little variation to what it presents to you. The front sight post technically should not always be where the bullet goes in a real weapon depending on how you're looking it, but it may be the best determining factor to the player when he can't align them better or worse himself.
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  9. #29
    One thing that I can say we've discovered the 2nd USSS Co H is that adjusting your mouse sensitivity down will help alleviate the sway sensitivity. That at least helps with control. It doesn't change the fact that the accuracy is wonky, but it's nice to have better control over the sway.

  10. #30
    @Lane Meyer

    Yeah After a lot of testing the Sharps rifle, It seems to have a larger RNG Coefficient.
    I've hit many Exact center shots with the Mississippi Rifle at mid target range after sprinting and standing.
    Whereas sitting/crouched and not running I miss Mid targets. or hit randomly right and left with the Sharps Rifle
    I also feel as if the sway is more with the Sharps which it shouldn't be as it's a shorter rifle.
    I do have video evidence of me missing shots almost point blank with the sharps

    Now I will say I find the System of In-formation, skirmishing, and Out of line nice but it throws so many flaws into the system of a fair fight. it executes the Aim so bad that its unplayable and unrealistic, just 20m off to my line skirmishing and boom Can't aim due to the system. Keep in mind I wasn't rambowing I was In a skirmish Regiment. I've been told by a Dev that its better than other guns but that can't be true with all the experiences my friends and I have had.

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