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Thread: A Novel Idea: Fouling

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    So, basically matches would be less about tactics and based more on luck. I don't think this would work. Back when skirmishes first came out, the ticket counter was visible to everyone. What ended up happening was the teams watched the counters and wouldn't move until they had a numerical advantage. It made matches very boring. What I see happening with this is one side letting the other fire away and foul their rifles while they hunker down behind cover. Once they see the other side is having weapon issues, they pounce and the defender can do nothing about it.
    I can see what you're getting at, so here is the breakdown I am thinking for gameplay.

    In a arsenal package of rounds, nine rounds are normal, the tenth is a cleaner (historically with a reduced charge to scrape and leave less residue).

    Let's say the average soldier can fire three rounds in a minute, which equals 20 seconds per round. After the nine rounds let's add three seconds progressively per round which equals roughly a third of a second times nine. The cleaner round cuts that over half to one seconds extra overall which starts another 10 round cycle. After 30 rounds, you take a singular "loading phase" to pull a greased patch, thread it through the ramrod and clear the bore and start your next 30 rounds OR attach a cleaning brush.

    These times are examples for full length muskets.

    .58 Caliber Base Reload - 20 seconds

    First Cycle / 2nd Round - 20 1/3 seconds
    First Cycle / 9th Round - 23 seconds
    First Cleaner Round - Resets to 21

    Second Cycle / 2nd Round - 21 1/3 seconds
    Second Cycle / 9th Round - 24 seconds
    Second Cleaner - Resets to 22 seconds

    Third Cycle / 2nd Round - 22 1/3 seconds
    Third Cycle / 9th Round - 25 seconds
    Third Cleaner - 23 seconds

    Greased Patch OR Brush Resets to 20 seconds.

    .69 Caliber Base Reload - 20 seconds

    Same premise, but instead of 1/3rd, make it 1/8th with no cleaners and a full reset on the 30th round.

    If you're worried about the tactics, fire the rear rank, wait for half way in the reload, have the front rank fire or vice versa or fire by platoons. Automatic 10-13 second reloads for half your commands. The manuals of the period and previous spell this out very clearly even for the greenest Lieutenants.
    Last edited by L. Hopper; 01-26-2019 at 07:59 AM.
    Infantry Battalion Commander

    Army of the West

  2. #12

    USA General of the Army

    Oleander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    1. We only carry ~40 rounds in game with no way to resupply at the moment, so running a patch down the barrel when you only have 10 rounds left seems like a waste of effort. Not to mention I can't see a soldier stopping in the heat of a battle to run a patch down the barrel. There are plenty of accounts of soldiers just dealing with it and smacking the ramrods against fence posts and trees to seat the ball.

    2. There are very few instances where someone will manage to fire more than 9 rounds before taking a death on a busy server. If I had to guess, I would say on average most people get less than 10 shots off before taking a death.

    3. Is it really worth the effort to implement something like this for a 3 second longer reload after 9 rounds?

    4. We already use "fire by rank", but at the moment nearly everyone uses single rank tactics and skirmish lines so firing by rank is not possible.

  3. #13

    USA Sergeant

    thomas aagaard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Aalborg, Denmark
    Quote Originally Posted by L. Hopper View Post
    For the first portion.
    Please source a documented citing of hundreds of rounds being fired through one Rifle or Rifled Musket with no attempt to clean the barrel.
    Colonel Lane-Fox recalls that as First Instructor at Hythe (before 1855), “as many as 150 rounds were frequently fired out of the same barrel” without any fouling or difficulty of loading. Even more remarkably, the rifles were left to sit overnight without any cleaning “in order to make the test severe.” They still loaded and fired “without experiencing the slightest difficulty in loading.”
    Busk’s Hand-Book says rifles were fired “200 times successively without any difficulty in loading.”

    Page 24, in this
    Written by 1st Lieutenant Brett Gibbons, Ordnance Corps, USAR December, 2016

    And If you read the following pages it cover how and why the exact same weapon and cartridge resulted in fouling after only a handfull of shots, when used in India.
    Showing how important it is that cartridges are made to the climate they are used in. (the entire text is worth a read btw)

    So It is no surprise that some civil war soldiers had big issues with fouling. Wartime production can easily result in poorly made cartridges.
    A huge number of different arms used, some re-bored badly, big differences in climate in Pennsylvania to the deep south. Differences in temperature from Summer to winter... And poorly trained soldiers who did not always take proper care of their weapons.

    But my main point is, Some weapons with the right type of cartridges had no issue. And other arms had huge issues.

    The solution for the British was making their bullet smaller. It still expanded sufficiently for accuracy but it helped solve it.
    The CSA later in the war simply stopped making specific cartridges for the 58cal Springfield and just focused on the smaller enfield cartridge.
    It also helped with the logistical issue.


    A danish military book from 1851 "Vejledning i Læren Om Cavalleriets og Infanteriets vaaben" Tell about a test done with a danish "Tapriffel M/1849". (that is a rifle musket using the Thouvenin system, that by 1850 was in the hands of 25% of the danish army)

    On one day they shot with a rifle for most of the afternoon. It was then stored over the night with no cleaning.
    The next day they shot 30 shots with it in 17 minutes at a 2foot by 2foot target at 200 Alen (125m) with a good hit rate.
    And the book note that the last shot was as easy to load as the first shot.

    ( I dont have access to the book atm, so don't remember the exact number of rounds shot the first day Maybe 100 or 150. But I do have a quote about the shots fired the next day. number, time , target and range)

    As STOTS noted, the nipple was an issue, and all danish soldiers was issued with a nipple pick as a result.
    Thomas Bernstorff Aagaard

  4. #14

    CSA Captain

    Sox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Nothing in this thread would enhance gamepley.

    On average how many times do we die, per map, in War of Rights? I can't honestly believe that you think that this game needs features that will make it even more difficult for players to stay alive.
    ''I'm here to play an American Civil War era combat game, not Call of Duty with muskets.''.

  5. #15

    USA General of the Army

    A. P. Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    In Maryland State Near to both Antietam and Gettysburg, Harper's Ferry et al.

    Isn't that when you go hunting pheasant or grouse or quail?

  6. #16
    I wish the rifles would get a bit more dirtier from many uses, right now it seems only one level of fouling seems present.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.Nightfire View Post
    I wish the rifles would get a bit more dirtier from many uses, right now it seems only one level of fouling seems present.

    Misfires happen. It would add more intense moments during melee and charges. Plus it would be rare.

    I am all for it. It is a realism game anyways.

    People complaining about luck need to understand it would be rare and not typically going to change the tide of battle. Just make some moments less predictable.
    Last edited by Grudge Bringer; 02-13-2020 at 06:42 PM.

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