One problem with the Last Stand mechanic

[Poorlaggedman]

It feels like an improvement to the old system where rounds suddenly ended without warning when a team broke.

That being said the functionality of the mode effectively changes the rules of the game in that how you die no longer matters. This goes for the attacker and the defender. It's as if the game suddenly says "You know those rules you were going by, well they don't matter any more to the team that breaks." Yes there is an urgency put into place for the defender to not die and the attacker to move quickly but, especially for the attacker, it's like the old rules are dissolves. It also effectively dissolves the incentives to play in the style the main game encourages.

Now I think the team morale system is barking up the wrong tree in the first place and that all the incentive should be on the individual player and not by punishing the team score. But at the same time it doesn't make a whole heckuva lot of sense the way the last stand functions as a competitive and realistic game. A "final push" team has effectively been relieved of the old rules that were supposed to hold the team together.

I thought I'd point this out since nobody has yet.

[Sox]

I've seen it work, I think, as intended. We were put into last stand while defending Bloody Lane, and it really did look like our position was being over run. The Union troops came flooding over the fences, giving the bayonet to anyone who had not 'fled' by that point. Where the system falls down, in my opinion, is when both sides go into Last Stand & Final Push at the same time, then it just devolves like PoorLagged said. I think it would better suit the mechanics if, when both teams are at Last Stand & Final Push at the same time, the match would end in a draw.

[Sgt.Nightfire]

Biggest problem Last Stand has is that people from the defending team can just hide in the main spawn and do not get the "fall back to the point or die in 59 seconds". People know this now and hide in the main spawn where on most maps the enemy can't get too.

[TrustyJam]

Biggest problem Last Stand has is that people from the defending team can just hide in the main spawn and do not get the "fall back to the point or die in 59 seconds". People know this now and hide in the main spawn where on most maps the enemy can't get too.

People can’t hide in main spawn. There is a hidden timer of a few minutes when last stand is triggered before the on-screen timer of 60 seconds kicks in. This may lead some to believe they can do so but everyone will get the desertion timer of 60 seconds.

- Trusty

[Oleander]

One of my biggest issues with Final Push is it just becomes a massive charge fest. Even if the defending team is still at Taking Losses or above the amount of endless charging can be enough to knock morale down to Last Stand, and I don't think that's necessarily fair to a team that has worked together for a whole match. I also don't think it is fair that Last Stand gets no respawns while Final Push gets infinite. Maybe give Last Stand a separate 2 minute timer to hold the point with unlimited respawns. This hunting down every last defender when you know you have no penalty other than a time limit seems unbalanced.

[Poorlaggedman]

I don't really have a specific solution and I'm not recommending anything reverting. The sudden-loss from Breaking never felt very pleasing or finished and this is better. I'm just saying if the lions share of benefits to your formation status are for the team and only the team, it comes apart at the seems during the end-game events.

[Poorlaggedman]

When both trigger it's basically like Zombies vs Humans

[Sox]

I'm just saying if the lions share of benefits to your formation status are for the team and only the team, it comes apart at the seems during the end-game events.

But that does kind of make sense. When we get put into Last Stand (I despise that term, it should be called routing) I imagine that our men finally broke and are heading to the rear, with a few brave souls still standing their ground. So at that point I think that it is more of an 'every man for himself' situation.

[Poorlaggedman]

In any case where you're on your last 'life,' players will behave differently. The problem is that most of the deterrence mechanics have to do with the team score. You don't die out of line because of the team score. Is there suppression affects when you're out-of-line? Yes. But that alone doesn't do the trick as well because it's not punitive enough. The main reason for deterrence goes away during last stand. The attacker rushes in like mad (certainly not acting like a broken team).

It get's tricky when you get down to the depletion of a team's tickets in any game. You don't want both teams just digging in and the round becoming a bore fest but I don't think you want a mad free-for-all either.

I wouldn't say it represents a team routing. Just a defender not getting reinforced (literally). So it would almost make more sense for the objective to progress at that point to a fallback one, forcing the remaining defenders to fight a delaying action, lifting the desertion zones protecting the defender's base spawn. The defender can defend the main one, but they can also be driven back. The purpose becomes to degrade the victory of the attacking team. In almost any defensive situation where you're bled dry you would want to salvage something from it and reduce the enemy gains even if only for a short period of time. That would tie into a more complex win/loss system. Heck... maybe if the defender holds on to the fallback point long enough a fresh regiment arrives and the defender gets to counterattack and the former attacker has to hold their gains. Scenario-specific goals.

[Vulcarin]

People can’t hide in main spawn. There is a hidden timer of a few minutes when last stand is triggered before the on-screen timer of 60 seconds kicks in. This may lead some to believe they can do so but everyone will get the desertion timer of 60 seconds.

- Trusty

Hi Trusty,
We had an issue on Nicodemus Hill playing as union last night where we put the enemy to last stand and they all ran to spawn and we as union were on point capping with about 3:30 minutes left in game. The CSA went up to spawn or very near it, and sat there, no where near the point and were not dying from the timer of not being on cap point. We ended up losing due to this even though we were in complete control of the cap. we were unable to get up to their spawn to finish off their last players. can you elaborate on this and let me know if we are missing something here? i do have it videoed so if you would like to see what i saw, let me know.

Vulcarin