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Thread: Flag Spawning Wonkiness

  1. #1

    Flag Spawning Wonkiness

    If this is the best accuracy the spawn UI can get without hurting server performance, it might be wise to change the display to be something more ambiguous. It's dreadfully inaccurate as it is. I'll spawn when I'm in position 3 or 8. The time is wonky as well. That's all happily sacrificed if it helps get to 200 players but it doesn't make sense to have the timer if it's going to be all over the place. I'd rather see a progression bar or an actual stated estimated time range depending on my position. It makes the game across as very buggy since it's a matter of importance to the player who is dead and waiting to spawn.

    I'd really like to see spawn pause instead of cancel the entire queue when the flag is dropped just like when the flag is out of line. Perhaps a slight grace period should be added of a second or two before a flag becomes "dropped" as far as spawning goes. Perhaps instead of the game shuffling players around between their home regiment flag and the other flag (if theirs is unavailable) make the two flag spawns separate entities entirely that can be selected as such.

    The sensitivity of the flag spawn hampers some of the historical uses of a flag. Who the heck is gonna keep a color guard up front where they're supposed to be if the continued deployment of reinforcements depends on it being up and ready? Flag bearers are more than bullet magnets right now in game. They're high priority targets that throw a monkey wrench in the entire team's spawn queue every time they're dropped. And they're getting killed fast to the point players are refusing to touch it and I'm feeling more and more like it's a death sentence to touch the thing while I can't even get one player spawned by the time I'm dead.

    Flags had a real practical use in the Civil War and it's one that doesn't translate into this game as a guide for the troops belonging to it. I think reinforcing off the flag is a good representation of it's real life use because a flag being carried is a rallying tool. However what's happening in game is the science of the flag deployment is so harsh that it doesn't make sense to keep the flag front and center and dropping the enemy flag bearer is a matter of critical importance as it resets the whole queue.

    Smart players in War of Rights know the flag is not a physical rallying symbol but something that is to be protected. In my opinion it's best role in gameplay is entirely off the line with both flags and a detail of three to act as a spawn. That's silly but it's woefully detrimental to the team's effectiveness to do otherwise and the chat is continually filled with "flag get in line" or "get the flag" by waiting spawning players because players proudly and foolishly will realistically carry the flag in danger areas causing constant interruptions in spawning.
    Suggestion: Formations, Suppression, Spawning, Leadership

    Old Pennsylvania Discord:

  2. #2
    Gameplay in WoR is many months, possibly years from maturation.

    The bare bones of gameplay we have on offer aren’t up to the job and the best and possibly only innovative feature in WoR, flag spawning, isn’t working properly.

    I really hope going forward the development focus is entirely on gameplay design and features.

  3. #3
    They can't just focus on gameplay content. The infrastructure of performance and optimization needs to be done at the same time to allow for the content. They have come a long way cut them a break please and cut back on the negativity...

  4. #4

    CSA Captain

    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    The flag absolutely needs to be off the main line and in a separate part of the map with a small color guard, which is insane if we take a good hard look at the flag spawn system. We're legitimately asking upwards of four players every match to sit around and do nothing. Nothing! Just stand there and "do your duty," while the rest of the team goes off and has fun. Don't get me wrong, I love the system from a regiment standpoint, but Holy shit what a concept.

    Other than that, yeah someone already said the current flag queue is a best estimate sort of deal. We definitely need to move to a more ambiguous system like "a few miles from the front," "about a mile from the front," "entering the front" or some shit.

  5. #5

    USA General of the Army

    Oleander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Flags are easy targets, i think its necessary for the queue to be interupted to prevent a flood of reinforcements magically spawning near the front. Thats also why they are high priority in game.

    I do agree that there needs to be more spawn points closer to the fighting to simulate reinforcements closing in.

  6. #6
    We could possibly look into first having the flag get disabled / dropped, when it has actually been dropped for 5 seconds. Allowing players to still spawn if there were just 4 seconds left of the timer and allow for the spawn queue to continue without interruption if the flag is picked up rapidly.

    Just pausing the flag spawn indefinately if the flag is dropped is something we dont want since who knows when the flag might be picked up again if ever and in that case, we want to encourage players to switch to the base spawn.

    Let me also explain that if the flag bearer is skirmishing and the spawn queue starts counting from 20.

    And all of a sudden you spawned. This happened because the flag bearer moved into being InFormation, resulting in the spawn wave time now becoming 10 seconds and with the spawn wave already having counted for 13 seconds, the 1 player in the spawn queue is then spawned.

    Currently when estimating your spot in the spawn queue, these are the information we have.

    - Total size of the queue right now.
    - Your start position in the queue (The total length of the queue when you entered the queue)
    - An event each time a player is spawned on the flag bearer you are queued on.

    From our testing, the event when a player is spawned on the flag bearer always triggers reliably. It prints a message to the console, though only if you yourself are queued on the flag bearer as well. It is currently however not always that your current spot in the queue decrements when a player is spawned (Which we should be able to fix as the player spawned event does fire). We'll be looking into debugging it further soon.

  7. #7
    Rbater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Maryland Capital
    Quote Originally Posted by LaBelle View Post
    The flag absolutely needs to be off the main line... We're legitimately asking upwards of four players every match to sit around and do nothing. Nothing! Just stand there and "do your duty," while the rest of the team goes off and has fun.
    I wrote this in a post a week or two ago: Well for one, due to flag bearers not being able to attack, the role is of course acting only at a fraction of its potential. Quite often, flag bearers would be using the ends of the flag for self defense. See the end of the flag in this picture: Attachment 10924 Also, by not being able to move the flag's position (such as left or right as a signal) we're missing out on being able to signal an impending attack on a certain side if both regiments are separated. I believe if those were added, the flag bearer would be able to have more fun themselves when you go on a charge or are being charged, and it adds even more importance to the role.

  8. #8
    Thanks for the insight.

    A lot of times as a player who was just killed I have some insight into what's going on when the flag becomes "dropped". So what actually happens when the queue is cancelled is that I'm sitting there with my mouse over the flag ready to jump into line first. Very often even then I'm not first in line as other players are doing the same. If they're like me they're watching those numbers and chocking it up to a buggy game. Spawning on a flag in combat and being AFK because you weren't ready is not ideal. So the end result is more frustration as I'm getting a stated time and position that changes.

    I don't have any answers to that but spawning is probably the most important feature in the game other than the bare basics (point musket, go boom). A small fraction of the combat strength of a team is actually present on the field at any given time while the rest come in as respawns. Where and when they come is critical above all else in any game because you're going to take casualties.

    I found a very direct correlation in the past in a game with standard progressive objectives and spawns for both teams. When you lower the spawn time, very often both teams will bleed each other out without the defender ever losing the first objective. The defender has nowhere to progress while the attacker, if they kill a bunch of defenders still doesn't have enough time to capitalize so far from it's spawn before the enemy defenders are replaced. That shows the power of spawning on gameplay. A lot of people are of the mindset that longer spawn times equals more realistic gameplay but I don't agree with that at all. It's appropriate for some games and not for others.

    Position is also critical. The dynamic of Pry Grist Mill is heavily effected by the Union spawning on their left flank rather than a centralized location. Obviously with Hooker's Push it makes a difference on gameplay being a half mile away. On top of spawning with an unloaded musket the length of time a player is effectively out of action can be quite high in this game.

    In a game like WoR, lines widdle away rather fast and need replenishment or they can't exist for very long, wherever and whenever the spawn is.
    Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 05-14-2019 at 12:00 AM.
    Suggestion: Formations, Suppression, Spawning, Leadership

    Old Pennsylvania Discord:

  9. #9

    CSA Captain

    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    I actually find myself agreeing with PLM here. A slow game isn't always a great game and while I respect that this is what the devs are intending, I don't think speeding things up would do anything other than boost this games "fun factor."

  10. #10

    CSA Captain

    Sox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    The actual location that reinforcements spawn needs to be behind the colour bearer, it's not fun to spawn in and get shot in the face by one of your own side, or spawn in front of your own line and get killed because you appear just as the enemy volley fire. In all honesty I've not seen that the addition of these 'mobile' spawn points has changed gameplay at all, you still see lines bleeding away to nothing, the same as you did before spawning on the flag was introduced.
    ''I'm here to play an American Civil War era combat game, not Call of Duty with muskets.''.

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