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Thread: Resting muskets on fence rails & interaction

  1. #11

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    +1 for resting your weapon

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble View Post
    +1 for resting your weapon
    +1 what?

  3. #13
    Yeah. It's just like the real Civil War. Except we can't throw the fences down like real combatants can and there's 3 different models of farmer fence in the game representing a plethora of fences both ultra sturdy (for driving cattle by) and ultra filmsy farmer boundary fences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vankovski View Post
    It seems like the tactics being utilized in game accurately reflect the tactics of the day. Very interesting!
    crazy.gif


    I'd like to see a battle report anywhere of any unit ever advancing in column up a worm fence. Or any fence for that matter. Or a formation that completely dissolves and hugs to a fence for protection shooting over each other's shoulders because they couldn't be made to stay in formation. That doesn't match any reality anywhere in the Civil War. You get the sense that wooden fences were far more of an obstacle than anything else. I'm glad the game has increased the penetration of fences and buildings beyond where they used to be.

    The Trust video is cringe-worthy in it's scant details on the covers these fences provide, leaving the audience to imagine, unlike the real combatants who had a pretty good idea. I remember it came out within a few days of when I did my video slamming fences in this game as effectively trenches. Historians will be quick to tell you that, though there were historically many more fences on the terrain at the time of the battles, a lot of them were torn down during the battle, used for firewood, taken down for maneuver, or specifically deconstructed and piled up as a barricade (because just a fence is terrible protection). When I was a little kid we used fences for protection playing. You wouldn't like your chances standing behind one being shot at. Even if it stops a bullet the fence will start splintering apart and you've got all the more junk flying around at you.

    Longstreet's troops didn't stop on the Emmitsburg Road at Gettysburg and start exchanging volleys with the Union defenders. Rufus Dawes didn't stay at the roadside fence he was at "and get slaughtered" by Confederates at the Railroad Cut, he charged the railroad cut. The Confederates at the Sunken Road at Antietam did not post up behind a model worm fence and use the fence for cover, they tore the fence apart and stacked the rails up.

    Steadying your weapon is the main functional defensive advantage of using a fence other than ones of exceptional quality.

    The Hagerstown Road fence is a high quality fence because it's a turnpike. That's why it's still standing after the battle. Not all fences were like that. https://www.loc.gov/item/2018666239/
    Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 07-19-2019 at 11:22 PM.
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  4. #14

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    First off, PLM definitely knows his fences - kudos! Your description's are on point! I agree with you that lots of players use cover and that an additional buffer may not work or even be necessary as I would not want the game turning to a "take cover" mentality. I also agree that "formations dissolve and crowd around fences, rocks, or all behind a single tree" as I've been in both situations before. To Vankovski's point, I think the strongest "tactical purpose" here is (4) Command and Control. Thank you for posting the video! We all know how frustrating it is when units do not work together in game, but to some degree the fences (with proper strategy) promote unit organization and cohesiveness - a complaint from many that we here often is lacking during play. To Oleander's point, the devs are being as meticulous as possible with the modeling of maps as close to form of the actual battlefield and no doubt there will be some "errors" and disagreement's but the CSA line was in fact heavily situated, behind dozens of these fences all across the battlefield. Lovin all the ideas & debate gents!

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogofspades View Post
    +1 what?
    No native speaker here, I am sorry if this was unclear. I do support the idea of resting your weapon on a fence, wall etc. To steady your aim.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    The Trust video is cringe-worthy in it's scant details on the covers these fences provide, leaving the audience to imagine, unlike the real combatants who had a pretty good idea. ]
    I don't know why I expected any different from you.

  7. #17

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    No worries Gamble I was just unsure if you were making reference to another part of the post, thank you for joining in the discussion!

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    I don't know why I expected any different from you.
    It's one of the worst they've done because fence use in battle is one of the top misconceptions of visitors to battlefields. Right behind the appearance of forested terrain being generally much clearer than today and the accuracy of the weapons.

    Clearly this has spilled over even into this game at some small level. The most obvious example is the Sunken Lane bearing a less than historical appearance to battle conditions since the units clearly report tearing down fences and building a barricade of rails. In that case there's the advantage of post-battle pictures. The barricade the Confederates built in the post-battle pictures is surely not to the level it was at the time they fought there after being fought over and trampled down, the main advantage is the road itself not the rails though. Also notice the bodies laying in the road show you that the road was barely more than one body length across at its base. It explains more why flanking it was so bad for the defenders because they were packed in there like sardines unlike in WoR where you can fan over a dozen players across the width of the sunken lane to form a front.


    https://www.loc.gov/item/2018671456/
    https://www.loc.gov/item/2018666240/
    https://www.loc.gov/item/2018671463/

    TBH the Sunken Lane generally confused me greatly when I was last there a little over a year ago comparing it to the WoR sunken lane

    You can't get the entire battlefield fence conditions down totally accurate but I think it can be done better than it is. There's no reason to just go with the exact setup a present day tourist sees with picturesque condition fences on a battlefield.
    Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 07-20-2019 at 04:29 AM.
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  9. #19

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    Fences are indestructible, which I find quite problematic. While split rail fences may be quite sturdy, a lot of those were constructed without the use of nails. I could imagine that even heavy musketry fire was enough to move the logs of such fences. If simple minie balls are enough to cut down an oak tree (Bloody Angle) over some hours of fighting, some fence logs probably broke earlier or just were pushed down. I don't know how this could be fixed, though. Making them affected by a physic simulation would be very taxing for hardware, changing the models to quickly madeshift breastworks could even emphasize the role of those fences even more (on the other hand it could also add historical accuracy to the maps, like the sunken lane as PLM suggested).

  10. #20
    I am looking up to for this to be added

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