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Thread: Need the Option to Furl the Colours

  1. #11
    I wish they would give the flag bearer the option to bash people with the pole instead of being totally defenseless when everyone dies in a charge

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TRaider View Post
    The focus of this post is to add an option to furl and unfurl the colurs. I'm not debating the purpose of colour bearers or a colour guard.
    ...and furling the flag serves next-to-no purpose and would be rarely done at all if the flag is the same spawn purpose as it is now. Especially when you can put it behind a tree/bush/incline, literally anywhere else with 4 disciplined guys and be perfectly fine with a continued spawn while your main line does whatever sneaking movements ahead they want to do. The only advantage is being able to return the flag to actively spawn right there at the frontline on a dime. I can already see the chat feed "Unfurl the flag!!!" "Why's the flag furled." Trolls in formation furling the flag at the wrong times making you TK them, etc.
    Suggestion: Formations, Suppression, Spawning, Leadership https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZqPsbvyD8s


    Old Pennsylvania Discord: https://discord.gg/MjxfZ5n

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    ...and furling the flag serves next-to-no purpose and would be rarely done at all if the flag is the same spawn purpose as it is now. Especially when you can put it behind a tree/bush/incline, literally anywhere else with 4 disciplined guys and be perfectly fine with a continued spawn while your main line does whatever sneaking movements ahead they want to do. The only advantage is being able to return the flag to actively spawn right there at the frontline on a dime. I can already see the chat feed "Unfurl the flag!!!" "Why's the flag furled." Trolls in formation furling the flag at the wrong times making you TK them, etc.
    It's historically accurate and is needed but I know you have a reputation to keep up so have fun.



  4. #14

    WoR 33rd Va Infy Regt colors furled/ color guard

    Quote Originally Posted by TRaider View Post
    It is not historically accurate to believe that civil war Regiments would have had their colours unfurled when they wanted to keep their position unknown to the enemy. When engaged in combat the colours do provide inspiration to the men but when moving through woods or other concealment it would be foolhardy to have the colours unfurled. Since War of Rights strives for historical accuracy I believe a mechanic to furl the colours needs to be implemented.
    Sirs and Mdms, I have worked as an historian and interpreter at Civil War sites for over twenty years and researched this era in depth. Historically speaking American Civil War era, Federal and Confederate standards usually came issued with a black, painted enamel cloth sleeve which was meant to be placed over the colors in inclement weather as well as to store the flags in during long marches. As far as the need for the colors to be furled while marching, this should be implemented for marching interface in the game as it was done during the war. This game is wonderfully detailed in its rendering of the Civil War era , lets keep to this Historically Accurate Game play and continue this game as a mark above the rest in play-ability and accuracy of content.
    If you are worried about people abusing this feature make a penalty of death to the color bearer if the player keeps the flag furled for more than a few minutes. The color bearer whom should be a Sgt in both Northern and Southern Armys during the Antietam Campaign, and usually had an accompanying guard of six Corporals, all picked by the colonel for their bravery on the field and proficiency in drill. These men swore an extra oath to protect the colors with their lives if necessary, rather than see those flags taken or left in the dirt. In game, just like the officer gets counted down on if the player is too far astray from their troops, make these Color Corporals have to be within four paces, two files if you like, of the Color Sergeant or they too die. I don't see that adding these features would inhibit game play but rather further enhance the details of this game which make it unique in its endeavors. Seeing a color guard actually be attached to and guard the colors, furled or unfurled during game play would be super awesome IMHO. I highly encourage the game developers to implement these two features in the near future!! Regards and Best wishes Wm Picking 2d Lt G Coy 33rd Regiment Virginia Volunteer Infantry
    Last edited by william pickng; 08-27-2019 at 05:42 AM.

  5. #15

    USA General of the Army

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    The above mentioned cases, and furling were done every marching break, as well as in camp settings. It was very much a daily activity. To say it serves no purpose would be an understatement. It is very historical.

  6. #16
    In game functionality the reason would be solely to hide, right? All agree that this action should disable spawning. What is the balance between surprise and the need for timely spawning in the field in this game? I have nothing against furling. The premise of the request is that units would be able to use it to sneak about without the flag having to give away the position. This game community already has an aversion to stand-up fighting without breaking for cover or concealment first. Is that really a need that's going to find great productive use?

    Anyone can talk about history (huge fan) but what about gaming and transposing that history into game? Gamers are going to game. And if you tell them you're going to put them in maps and scenarios where stealth is unhistorically more an option (due to the width of the maps and lack of combat power to fill it) and then you're going to further say: "Here, you can shuck your colors too" What end is that going to effect from where gameplay is already at?

    You already have teams and players doing anything they can to avoid advancing in line of battle, certainly not with the colors at the front and center. Are they going to be further darting about with their flag furled now? The desire for a continuous spawn and the need to protect the flag bearer is already a problem which keeps it filling that alternative role. Should the colors never be seen at all in this game except by accident or unfortunate necessity?
    Suggestion: Formations, Suppression, Spawning, Leadership https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZqPsbvyD8s


    Old Pennsylvania Discord: https://discord.gg/MjxfZ5n

  7. #17

    WoR 33rd Va Infy Regt colors furled/ color guard

    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    In game functionality the reason would be solely to hide, right? All agree that this action should disable spawning. What is the balance between surprise and the need for timely spawning in the field in this game? I have nothing against furling. The premise of the request is that units would be able to use it to sneak about without the flag having to give away the position. This game community already has an aversion to stand-up fighting without breaking for cover or concealment first. Is that really a need that's going to find great productive use?

    Anyone can talk about history (huge fan) but what about gaming and transposing that history into game? Gamers are going to game. And if you tell them you're going to put them in maps and scenarios where stealth is unhistorically more an option (due to the width of the maps and lack of combat power to fill it) and then you're going to further say: "Here, you can shuck your colors too" What end is that going to effect from where gameplay is already at?

    You already have teams and players doing anything they can to avoid advancing in line of battle, certainly not with the colors at the front and center. Are they going to be further darting about with their flag furled now? The desire for a continuous spawn and the need to protect the flag bearer is already a problem which keeps it filling that alternative role. Should the colors never be seen at all in this game except by accident or unfortunate necessity?

    To whom it may concern,
    This game was originally intended, it is my understanding, to be a recreation of the HISTORICAL Battle and campaign of Antietam. I believe the developers intended "gamers' to actually fight using Civil War era tactics. You say the players in this community hide too much? Well sir, I believe Stonewall Jackson hid an entire corps in the woods around Sharpsburg and fired from concealment. Even Longstreet's troops positions were originally concealed until the Federals literally stumbled into his troops. Skirmish manuals of the period explicitly state to take full advantage of terrain and cover to protect and conceal your men. This is why knowing skirmish drill and how to use a skirmish line is necessary and effective. Having the ability to conceal a large body is not only accurate but will improve game play as it will prevent rogue players trolls from picking off your men as well as the flag before the enemy actually engages you in force. Why do you think we all need to stand out in the open, Napoleonic fashion as if we are recreating the battle of First Manassas or Waterloo? Have you not understood what happened to the French at that famous demise?! Even in the movie Gettysburg, 1993 the directors strived for and achieved hisctorical accuracy. All the Confeds are hidden, in the tree lines, in cover and WITH THE FLAGS FURLED!! If a Hollywood production can do it right then so can our developers!! Almost all the Confederate positions were ones of Concealment.
    The intended purpose of furling a flag was to save the color bearers strength as well as stay concealed. The sleeve was never intended for use in combat, just marching. Furling the flag was done in combat but not once the enemy was engaged w your troops. Why would furling the flag even have to effect the respawn point at all? If a player stays furled too long then have thm get killed by the game, same as the officer if hes alone. The colors were unfurled when the enemy engages the unit not before as the flag was a precious symbol of home and neeeded to be cared for , hence the sleeve. Simply make a game rule that the flag automatically unfules when the mainbody or the color guard is engaged. In my mind the flag as a spawn point shouldnt be avctive until the flag/ guard comes under fire. As the unit is engaged and casualties occurre the need for renforcements arrises and the flag becomes active. Besides, it is more accurate that reenforcements join the main battle line as exactly that; reenforcements marching from the rear. It doesn't take that long thw run from the main spawn area anyhow. Not to mention this would force officers to use skirmishers, flankers, scouts and then their main body; just as it was done during the war, sir.
    As far as you not placing your colors in the ranks, well that sir is inaccurate; enough said. If players aren't advancing in line of battle then go deeper into the communal experience, and drill them properly. No officer worth his salt in the Civil War would have detacthed his colors from his troops further than maybe ten paces to the rear in combat; if your holding a defensive position, maybe. But the men of the Civil War armys had huge pride in their regiments flag, being in the color guard and carrying the colors. The men would hav econsidered them discgraced if the colors were always sent to the Rear much more so if the colors were positioned away from the men. The American Civil War was an immensely mobile, fire and maneuver war which used flanking maneuvers and firing plus technology to dispose of outmoded open field, line battles. The officers of our Civil War understood this. I suggest sir you re-read your military history of the war as well as a few manuals and maybe the game can actually be played as it was intended to be, a historical experience in ones home.
    "Gamers are going to game"? Okay, granted. But why can we not have historically sound renditions and impressions in this game and let those of us whom are recreating the actual period, as far as this game allows anyhow, and those not interested in the historical aspect as much, to be able to play this fantastic civil war combat game? The only reason why using actual civil war era tactics and manuals hasn't caught on in this game except with the IVR and a few other units is because of officers whom aren't into recreating the actual fight at Antietam, don't or cant understand simple tactics and only exhibit poor at best leadership skills on the field. I challenge you sir to use the tactics of the day in the game and you'll see just how effective these manuals were in combat; over 600,000 dead, wounded, and counting!!!!!
    This game needs more historical details to continue its head and shoulders lead over any other game playability while being true to its goal of recreating accurately the Antietam Campaign and letting players be a Civil War soldier. Again I encourage the developers to include the ability to Furl, Unfurl as well as incorporating the needed corporals for the six man color guard. The flag shouldn't be present in combat without its guard and the needed more ability's for the Color Sgt, having a side arm to defend himself and the colors with if attacked. Often a color Sgt would carry an NCO's sword or a small pistol. If the developers choose not to give us a Color Guard then I hope that the Color Sgt has athe ability to defend themelve's.
    Regards and respectfully, Wm Picking 2d Lt G Coy 33rd Regt Virginia Volunteer Infantry.

    Edited
    Last edited by william pickng; 08-28-2019 at 04:55 AM.

  8. #18
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    [QUOTE=william pickng;97593]To whom it may concern,
    This game was originally intended, it is my understanding, to be a recreation of the HISTORICAL Battle and campaign of Antietam. I believe the developers intended "gamers' to actually fight using Civil War era tactics. You say the players in this community hide too much? Well sir, I believe Stonewall Jackson hid an entire corps in the woods around Sharpsburg and fired from concealment. Even Longstreet's troops positions were originally concealed until the Federals literally stumbled into his troops. Skirmish manuals of the period explicitly state to take full advantage of terrain and cover to protect and conceal your men. This is why knowing skirmish drill and how to use a skirmish line is necessary and effective. Having the ability to conceal a large body is not only accurate but will improve game play as it will prevent rogue players trolls from picking off your men as well as the flag before the enemy actually engages you in force. Why do you think we all need to stand out in the open, Napoleonic fashion as if we are recreating the battle of First Manassas or Waterloo? Have you not understood what happened to the French at that famous demise?! Even in the movie Gettysburg, 1993 the directors strived for and achieved hisctorical accuracy. All the Confeds are hidden, in the tree lines, in cover and WITH THE FLAGS FURLED!! If a Hollywood production can do it right then so can our developers!! Almost all the Confederate positions were ones of Concealment.
    The intended purpose of furling a flag was to save the color bearers strength as well as stay concealed. The sleeve was never intended for use in combat, just marching. Furling the flag was done in combat but not once the enemy was engaged w your troops. Why would furling the flag even have to effect the respawn point at all? If a player stays furled too long then have thm get killed by the game, same as the officer if hes alone. The colors were unfurled when the enemy engages the unit not before as the flag was a precious symbol of home and neeeded to be cared for , hence the sleeve. Simply make a game rule that the flag automatically unfules when the mainbody or the color guard is engaged. In my mind the flag as a spawn point shouldnt be avctive until the flag/ guard comes under fire. As the unit is engaged and casualties occurre the need for renforcements arrises and the flag becomes active. Besides, it is more accurate that reenforcements join the main battle line as exactly that; reenforcements marching from the rear. It doesn't take that long thw run from the main spawn area anyhow. Not to mention this would force officers to use skirmishers, flankers, scouts and then their main body; just as it was done during the war, sir.
    As far as you not placing your colors in the ranks, well that sir is inaccurate; enough said. If players aren't advancing in line of battle then go deeper into the communal experience, and drill them properly. No officer worth his salt in the Civil War would have detacthed his colors from his troops further than maybe ten paces to the rear in combat; if your holding a defensive position, maybe. But the men of the Civil War armys had huge pride in their regiments flag, being in the color guard and carrying the colors. The men would hav econsidered them discgraced if the colors were always sent to the Rear much more so if the colors were positioned away from the men. The American Civil War was an immensely mobile, fire and maneuver war which used flanking maneuvers and firing plus technology to dispose of outmoded open field, line battles. The officers of our Civil War understood this. I suggest sir you re-read your military history of the war as well as a few manuals and maybe the game can actually be played as it was intended to be, a historical experience in ones home.
    "Gamers are going to game"? Okay, granted. But why can we not have historically sound renditions and impressions in this game and let those of us whom are recreating the actual period, as far as this game allows anyhow, and those not interested in the historical aspect as much, to be able to play this fantastic civil war combat game? The only reason why using actual civil war era tactics and manuals hasn't caught on in this game except with the IVR and a few other units is because of officers whom aren't into recreating the actual fight at Antietam, don't or cant understand simple tactics and only exhibit poor at best leadership skills on the field. I challenge you sir to use the tactics of the day in the game and you'll see just how effective these manuals were in combat; over 600,000 dead, wounded, and counting!!!!!
    This game needs more historical details to continue its head and shoulders lead over any other game playability while being true to its goal of recreating accurately the Antietam Campaign and letting players be a Civil War soldier. Again I encourage the developers to include the ability to Furl, Unfurl as well as incorporating the needed corporals for the six man color guard. The flag shouldn't be present in combat without its guard and the needed more ability's for the Color Sgt, having a side arm to defend himself and the colors with if attacked. Often a color Sgt would carry an NCO's sword or a small pistol. If the developers choose not to give us a Color Guard then I hope that the Color Sgt has athe ability to defend themelve's.
    Regards and respectfully, Wm Picking 2d Lt G Coy 33rd Regt Virginia Volunteer Infantry.

    Edited[/Q

    Well said. This was spot on!
    siiiiiip, yup.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRaider View Post
    It's historically accurate and is needed but I know you have a reputation to keep up so have fun.
    Is it, furling the colours in the middle of a battle is historical accuracy? I'd love to see your sources for that. At sunset, yes, on the march, yes, rest breaks, yes....in battle? Would furling the colours have helped to hide between a few hundred to a thousand men? colour me sceptical on this one. Also, Im sorry but PLM does have a point, you're just giving trolls another way of griefing and for what, a petty feature that hardly anyone will ever use?
    ''I'm here to play an American Civil War era combat game, not Call of Duty with muskets.''.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sox View Post
    Is it, furling the colours in the middle of a battle is historical accuracy? I'd love to see your sources for that. At sunset, yes, on the march, yes, rest breaks, yes....in battle? Would furling the colours have helped to hide between a few hundred to a thousand men? colour me sceptical on this one. Also, Im sorry but PLM does have a point, you're just giving trolls another way of griefing and for what, a petty feature that hardly anyone will ever use?
    Please show me where I said it was accurate to furl the colors in combat?


    It is not historically accurate to believe that civil war Regiments would have had their colours unfurled when they wanted to keep their position unknown to the enemy. When engaged in combat the colours do provide inspiration to the men but when moving through woods or other concealment it would be foolhardy to have the colours unfurled. Since War of Rights strives for historical accuracy I believe a mechanic to furl the colours needs to be implemented
    Last edited by TRaider; 08-29-2019 at 01:17 AM.



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