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Thread: Need the Option to Furl the Colours

  1. #21

    USA General of the Army

    A. P. Hill's Avatar
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    Also, During the Civil War, special tactical units and skirmishers were pulled from larger units and not sent into position with the regimental flags displayed.

    AS an example. 13th PA Reserve is composed of 10 companies, only one of those companies was the color company the others didn't carry. (Typical in all regiments.) They form up for a line advance, the color company stays back with the balance of the company and 3 or 4 other companies are selected from the regiment to form the task of skirmish line.

    So realistically Mr. Raider, it would be more prudent if your unit didn't spawn a flag bearer, as you are a single company out of a 10 company regiment.

  2. #22
    Mark L. E. E. Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRaider View Post
    Please show me where I said it was accurate to furl the colors in combat?
    >>>

    Quote Originally Posted by TRaider View Post
    It's historically accurate and is needed but I know you have a reputation to keep up so have fun.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark L. E. E. Smith View Post
    >>>
    Well if you read my original post I even acknowledge in the middle of combat the colours should be unfurled.
    Last edited by TRaider; 08-29-2019 at 02:44 PM.



  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by william pickng View Post
    To whom it may concern,
    This game was originally intended, it is my understanding, to be a recreation of the HISTORICAL Battle and campaign of Antietam. I believe the developers intended "gamers' to actually fight using Civil War era tactics. You say the players in this community hide too much? Well sir, I believe Stonewall Jackson hid an entire corps in the woods around Sharpsburg and fired from concealment. Even Longstreet's troops positions were originally concealed until the Federals literally stumbled into his troops. Skirmish manuals of the period explicitly state to take full advantage of terrain and cover to protect and conceal your men. This is why knowing skirmish drill and how to use a skirmish line is necessary and effective. Having the ability to conceal a large body is not only accurate but will improve game play as it will prevent rogue players trolls from picking off your men as well as the flag before the enemy actually engages you in force. Why do you think we all need to stand out in the open, Napoleonic fashion as if we are recreating the battle of First Manassas or Waterloo? Have you not understood what happened to the French at that famous demise?! Even in the movie Gettysburg, 1993 the directors strived for and achieved hisctorical accuracy. All the Confeds are hidden, in the tree lines, in cover and WITH THE FLAGS FURLED!! If a Hollywood production can do it right then so can our developers!! Almost all the Confederate positions were ones of Concealment.
    The intended purpose of furling a flag was to save the color bearers strength as well as stay concealed. The sleeve was never intended for use in combat, just marching. Furling the flag was done in combat but not once the enemy was engaged w your troops. Why would furling the flag even have to effect the respawn point at all? If a player stays furled too long then have thm get killed by the game, same as the officer if hes alone. The colors were unfurled when the enemy engages the unit not before as the flag was a precious symbol of home and neeeded to be cared for , hence the sleeve. Simply make a game rule that the flag automatically unfules when the mainbody or the color guard is engaged. In my mind the flag as a spawn point shouldnt be avctive until the flag/ guard comes under fire. As the unit is engaged and casualties occurre the need for renforcements arrises and the flag becomes active. Besides, it is more accurate that reenforcements join the main battle line as exactly that; reenforcements marching from the rear. It doesn't take that long thw run from the main spawn area anyhow. Not to mention this would force officers to use skirmishers, flankers, scouts and then their main body; just as it was done during the war, sir.
    As far as you not placing your colors in the ranks, well that sir is inaccurate; enough said. If players aren't advancing in line of battle then go deeper into the communal experience, and drill them properly. No officer worth his salt in the Civil War would have detacthed his colors from his troops further than maybe ten paces to the rear in combat; if your holding a defensive position, maybe. But the men of the Civil War armys had huge pride in their regiments flag, being in the color guard and carrying the colors. The men would hav econsidered them discgraced if the colors were always sent to the Rear much more so if the colors were positioned away from the men. The American Civil War was an immensely mobile, fire and maneuver war which used flanking maneuvers and firing plus technology to dispose of outmoded open field, line battles. The officers of our Civil War understood this. I suggest sir you re-read your military history of the war as well as a few manuals and maybe the game can actually be played as it was intended to be, a historical experience in ones home.
    "Gamers are going to game"? Okay, granted. But why can we not have historically sound renditions and impressions in this game and let those of us whom are recreating the actual period, as far as this game allows anyhow, and those not interested in the historical aspect as much, to be able to play this fantastic civil war combat game? The only reason why using actual civil war era tactics and manuals hasn't caught on in this game except with the IVR and a few other units is because of officers whom aren't into recreating the actual fight at Antietam, don't or cant understand simple tactics and only exhibit poor at best leadership skills on the field. I challenge you sir to use the tactics of the day in the game and you'll see just how effective these manuals were in combat; over 600,000 dead, wounded, and counting!!!!!
    This game needs more historical details to continue its head and shoulders lead over any other game playability while being true to its goal of recreating accurately the Antietam Campaign and letting players be a Civil War soldier. Again I encourage the developers to include the ability to Furl, Unfurl as well as incorporating the needed corporals for the six man color guard. The flag shouldn't be present in combat without its guard and the needed more ability's for the Color Sgt, having a side arm to defend himself and the colors with if attacked. Often a color Sgt would carry an NCO's sword or a small pistol. If the developers choose not to give us a Color Guard then I hope that the Color Sgt has athe ability to defend themelve's.
    Regards and respectfully, Wm Picking 2d Lt G Coy 33rd Regt Virginia Volunteer Infantry.

    Edited
    Great post. Wonderfully formatted and well informed. I wish that every member of the forum could write long-form posts that don't go off topic and turn into incoherent messes. You are truly a blessing. However, I do think that for gameplay reasons you should not be allowed to spawn on the flag while it is furled.
    Last edited by Vankovski; 08-29-2019 at 05:13 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sox View Post
    Is it, furling the colours in the middle of a battle is historical accuracy? I'd love to see your sources for that. At sunset, yes, on the march, yes, rest breaks, yes....in battle? Would furling the colours have helped to hide between a few hundred to a thousand men? colour me sceptical on this one. Also, Im sorry but PLM does have a point, you're just giving trolls another way of griefing and for what, a petty feature that hardly anyone will ever use?
    I can think of one example

    https://youtu.be/09m4X5FG5vc?t=190

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by A. P. Hill View Post
    Also, During the Civil War, special tactical units and skirmishers were pulled from larger units and not sent into position with the regimental flags displayed.

    AS an example. 13th PA Reserve is composed of 10 companies, only one of those companies was the color company the others didn't carry. (Typical in all regiments.) They form up for a line advance, the color company stays back with the balance of the company and 3 or 4 other companies are selected from the regiment to form the task of skirmish line.

    So realistically Mr. Raider, it would be more prudent if your unit didn't spawn a flag bearer, as you are a single company out of a 10 company regiment.
    This post is somewhat besides the point. So the devs should just remove flags from the game now?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TRaider View Post
    Well if you read my original post I even acknowledge in the middle of combat the colours should be unfurled.
    Don't bother dude, these guys are splitting hairs over your argument trying to nail you on semantics. The crux of your position is correct.

  8. #28

    USA General of the Army

    A. P. Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vankovski View Post
    This post is somewhat besides the point. So the devs should just remove flags from the game now?
    That's not what I said. And it's entirely on topic and point.

    If anything as in actual history, perhaps limit the number of flags so that every company in a regiment doesn't have one.

  9. #29
    FYI Gettysburg really isn't always a great example for historical accuracy. In that situation the troops are also laying down, something the developers supposedly won't put in the game but I think it should be.

    scheval2.gif

    I made a video way while back using a Gettysburg scene to show an example of when skirmishers were deployed and they literally were not deployed in that one situation but in many others which it did not show. As a matter of fact the whole scene was pretty much wrong in any more than it's most basic concept and anyone who read a readily-available 135 year-old report would have realized that but I guess they're too busy making a movie to get their facts straight.

    The issue with trolls might be resolved better if flag bearers dropped their flag when they're banned/kicked/disconnect (instead of it all vanishing) and if leadership positions could seize a flag from a lower rank. But of course leadership roles are just as likely to be a troll with the current setup.
    Suggestion: Formations, Suppression, Spawning, Leadership https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZqPsbvyD8s


    Old Pennsylvania Discord: https://discord.gg/MjxfZ5n

  10. #30
    Hello
    yes it is a very good option for the tactics in regiment of being able to roll up or to roll out the flag so that it is not visible anymore for the enemie with long distance and of course on the respawn flag would not be activated any more during this period of time.

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