Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Overtime game mode

  1. #1

    Overtime game mode

    Is it possible to relook at some of the end game mechanics? Progress has been made from it's original form and while I'm still not a fan of final push allowing unlimited respawns for the attacker lately I've noticed that with the new overtime mode if both teams are in their final moral stage i.e. final push/last stand that if the game goes into overtime it's basically unlimited respawns for the attacking team which can almost always guarantee a victory due to their players continuing to funnel in while defenders are dwindled away.

    Now while I hate the final push/last stand mechanic I actually really enjoy the overtime principle being implemented. It just feels extremely overpowered to me because of the above reason.

    Perhaps when overtime is triggered and the attacker is in final push it acts almost like last stand thereby giving that team just 1 respawn.

    I know arty is the focus right now but something I hope can get looked at in the future. Thank you for always responding and I hope the torches and pitchforks don't come out lol

  2. #2
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    5,133
    Hey there!

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Yes we've also noticed that the overtime mechanic can heavily favor the team in final push if it stays active for long enough for respawns to make it to the point.

    I'm not sure stopping the respawns from the final pushers is going to change much in relation to how it feels most of the times, however.

    It is, at least from my experience, often game over for the defending team if the attacking team is able to trigger overtime by having a majority of players on the point: they've already fought and killed most of the defenders and they are now sitting on the point gaining reinforcements via flag bearer spawning. This is of course hugely multiplied if they fought a team in last stand as the reinforcements of said team will have dried up.

    I'm not opposed to looking at trying to turn the final push mechanics into a light version of last stand when overtime triggers but my guess would be that it rarely would matter all that much because of the above.

    The overtime phase itself is not really designed for a time where the point changing hands is all that likely (that would be the counter-attack phases). It is more so in place in order to ensure the defenders/defenders against counter attackers aren't able to leave the point when time is about to run out in order to snatch up a win while at the same time having given the field to the enemy.

    We will be looking at making it clearer what happens when an overtime is broken by the other team gaining the upper hand in terms of players within the capture area as we feel like it happening instantly is often confusing.

    Instead, there will eventually be a few seconds where a sound will be playing as well as a visual indicator that the overtime is about to be broken for all players to see before the overtime actually breaks and the round ends/counter attackers retake the point.

    And yes, you are correct - arty is a huge priority at the moment. We fully expect it to scramble the balance of most areas where it is featured (which is why we're somewhat cautious as to dive into too many balance changes before its introduction).

    - Trusty

  3. #3

    CSA Major General

    Redleader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Kingdom of Belgium
    Posts
    456
    Hi all,

    Galahad beat me on making a post on it

    We just feel 'final push' isn't a real disadvantage (especially against last stand), why ?
    - Attacking force / timer is almost running out -> Go all in, we had cases the timer even went up coming from breaking to final push ?
    - When final push is on, you want to throw as much bodies at the enemy in order to get them to last stand (if they aren't on it yet).

    So we've seen a defending team lose when playing really good but they got swarmed during final push and going to last stand, attackers got overtime and won cause they had more people on cap (they kept flooding in, while the 'last stand' defenders we're getting wiped out).

    Otherwise I like the new mechanics, they can make games more dynamic and intense and implore to use different strategies/tactics.
    They do have an impact on certain maps, but that's another discussion.
    I write for my personal account and from personal experience, unless stated otherwise.

  4. #4
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    5,133
    Quote Originally Posted by Redleader View Post
    Hi all,

    Galahad beat me on making a post on it

    We just feel 'final push' isn't a real disadvantage (especially against last stand), why ?
    - Attacking force / timer is almost running out -> Go all in, we had cases the timer even went up coming from breaking to final push ?
    - When final push is on, you want to throw as much bodies at the enemy in order to get them to last stand (if they aren't on it yet).

    So we've seen a defending team lose when playing really good but they got swarmed during final push and going to last stand, attackers got overtime and won cause they had more people on cap (they kept flooding in, while the 'last stand' defenders we're getting wiped out).

    Otherwise I like the new mechanics, they can make games more dynamic and intense and implore to use different strategies/tactics.
    They do have an impact on certain maps, but that's another discussion.
    Thanks for chiming in.

    The sole disadvantage of final push is that the timer is set to a very short amount of time indeed (between 1 and a half and two head on attacks at the very most). It is obvious that if the attacking team has been very conservative with their attacks up until the timer is about to run out then that is not going to be a major factor for them. The same could be said of the tickets of the defender, however. If they have been conservative up until the timer is about to run out also then they are less likely to being close to entering last stand which means they can defend much more effectively.

    The timer going up when it was at a lower value than the final push timer for the specific skirmish area that happen to be active was fixed in the last update - now you will only get 30 seconds worth of final push if the round timer is at 30 seconds when final push triggers.

    We are going to be stepping up our monitoring of the balance once artillery is released (as we expect it to shift things in a major way). If we note that the final pushes continue to be overpowering we may end up reducing the given time a little more but not by a huge amount as we wish to avoid you only ever being able to push a single time due to the reduced time available.

    At that point, final push has effectively been nerfed into being a last stand for the attackers - we do strongly believe that it should be offering the attackers more time than a single life would require as most if not all skirmish areas always end up being costlier in lives for the attackers than the defenders (as it indeed was in real life) meaning a direct one to one ratio would likely very easily tip the balance over to the defender's advantage most often - just as a one to one ratio in starting morale/tickets would result in the defenders winning most if not all skirmish areas.

    The huge unknown in relation to these stats is the status of the flag bearers during final push. They can likely make or break the final push as getting in additional reinforcements as quickly as possible becomes hugely important during it. Sometimes the flag bearers might have just respawned back at base and maybe can't even reach the front line before being picked off, other times they will be right up there in the action, possibly even inside the capture area meaning a much stronger final push fighting force due to the respawns.

    - Trusty

  5. #5
    Thank you as always for the response Trusty. We will continue to keep testing these game modes as give whatever feedback we find. I'm just happy I beat redleader to a post ��

  6. #6

    CSA Major General

    Redleader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Kingdom of Belgium
    Posts
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post

    The huge unknown in relation to these stats is the status of the flag bearers during final push. They can likely make or break the final push as getting in additional reinforcements as quickly as possible becomes hugely important during it. Sometimes the flag bearers might have just respawned back at base and maybe can't even reach the front line before being picked off, other times they will be right up there in the action, possibly even inside the capture area meaning a much stronger final push fighting force due to the respawns.

    - Trusty
    That's something we keep in mind, flag bearers might hold the key to a victory
    There are a lot of variables that can impact the new mechanics and it's a search on finding a perfect balance (but in games that's a very hard thing to do).
    I write for my personal account and from personal experience, unless stated otherwise.

  7. #7
    Just make two objectives for the attacker and get rid of the final push / last stand dichotomy. If the attackers take both points, they win right away.

    Right now it doesn't pass any smell tests.

    Defenders are on Breaking, Attackers capture the point - Attackers win right away

    Defenders are on Taking Losses, Attackers capture the point, defenders are now in counterattack, defenders drop to breaking, defenders drop to final push. They still haven't retaken the objective. Attackers (now defending) are pushed to last stand and melt away. The defenders (counterattackers) swarm attackers and take point, attackers lose because of overtime and convoluted metrics. So you're actually punished for capturing early, like we're supposed to time captures to only happen after the defender is breaking.

    The whole thing is ridiculous and doesn't stand up to any serious examination. I don't know how a team that's broken becomes zombie-aggressive. loosed from the incentive to die 'in formation' vs 'out of line' after struggling in attacking a point to the point they break yet a similar team melts away when struggling in defending it. That differentiation makes no sense. People just want to play some CW combat not play hot potato with a 75 meter radius objective that radically alters the way in which the game is played based on who holds it.
    Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 01-29-2020 at 12:33 AM.
    Gameplay Suggestions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjUuaVXTJsY


    Old Pennsylvania Discord: https://discord.gg/MjxfZ5n

  8. #8

    CSA Captain

    Saris's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    South East Texas
    Posts
    1,294
    If we are going to keep the last stages for both attacker and defender, least make the flags useful when the defenders are on last stand, allowing them to respawn if the flag is on point and in formation/skirmishing. Abandoning the flag even with the battle lost is stupid and unrealistic.
    Texas Poppin B
    My Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/c/SarisTX

  9. #9

    CSA Captain


    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Detroit
    Posts
    592
    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    Just make two objectives for the attacker and get rid of the final push / last stand dichotomy. If the attackers take both points, they win right away.

    Right now it doesn't pass any smell tests.

    Defenders are on Breaking, Attackers capture the point - Attackers win right away

    Defenders are on Taking Losses, Attackers capture the point, defenders are now in counterattack, defenders drop to breaking, defenders drop to final push. They still haven't retaken the objective. Attackers (now defending) are pushed to last stand and melt away. The defenders (counterattackers) swarm attackers and take point, attackers lose because of overtime and convoluted metrics. So you're actually punished for capturing early, like we're supposed to time captures to only happen after the defender is breaking.

    The whole thing is ridiculous and doesn't stand up to any serious examination. I don't know how a team that's broken becomes zombie-aggressive. loosed from the incentive to die 'in formation' vs 'out of line' after struggling in attacking a point to the point they break yet a similar team melts away when struggling in defending it. That differentiation makes no sense. People just want to play some CW combat not play hot potato with a 75 meter radius objective that radically alters the way in which the game is played based on who holds it.
    I've always been a major proponent of multiple cap points. Even if they were sequential, it would make more sense than the current Last Final Push Stand system we currently have.
    Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in!

  10. #10
    Cyph3r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by LaBelle View Post
    I've always been a major proponent of multiple cap points. Even if they were sequential, it would make more sense than the current Last Final Push Stand system we currently have.
    This sounds much more appealing, although I have to admit, my knowledge on the mechanics of overtime are sketchy at best.
    2nd Lieutenant Eoghan O'Cobhtaigh


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •