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Thread: Ammunition Resupply

  1. #11
    Picking up ammo on the battlefield is a no-brainer. I'm not so sure about supply wagons depending on the situation. I've never heard of regiments being resupplied on the battlefield while in a 45 minute combat window, as opposed to having a generous ammunition supply to begin with. I'd be interested if there were any accounts. It seemed like a regiment was more likely to be asked to hold its position with fixed bayonets or to throw stones than get more ammo.

    Quote Originally Posted by MK81 View Post
    On the above, a side note. No pistol ammo availability please, for obvious reasons experianced in the development phases of the past.
    I think the main problem is that there's no pistol reload or reload animations. Those would obviously be a chore to animate but they'd be nice to have one day and add considerable time to reloading whereas the big problem with unlimited ammo was just that your six-shot pistol had unlimited shots which was crazy.

    The problem with officers is not so much that they're ramboing it's just that they can rambo as well as any other player can. Slap a spawn time penalty on a dead officer, moreso depending on his formation status at death. Afterall, isn't an officer harder to replace than a private on the battlefield? As opposed to people who think they should have the opposite, priority spawning. Imagine being in close combat and every 20 seconds you have to kill a new officer who the flag poops out.

    The pistol itself might also need some tweaking. The muskets in-game don't quite have precision aiming at longer ranges, the pistols probably shouldn't have wildly accurate aiming beyond X number paces. There also might not be enough sway or trembling put in. I think the game is rather generous with their kill power as well. Pistol ball ammo vs .58 caliber minie ball is a laughably large difference in size. Either way, pistols tend to be overly-effective and officers tend to throw their lives away brazenly in close combat, more like a CQB asset who can inflict a few short kills than functioning like an officer.
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  2. #12

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    As to resupply, there are accounts that state that one wagon load of ammunitions followed a single regiment at a required safe distance. What was done if the side had the numbers of units, one company would hold the line until it was time, (ammo running out, down to one or two rounds left,) a backup company would then align itself behind the company on the line and then open ranks and let the in line company filter to the rear. Once that was done, the reserve company would then close ranks and advance to take the position of the just relieved company.

    The relieved company would then march back to where the wagon and the regimental ordnance SGT was and collect their new issue of rounds, then move back to a supporting position behind the line and wait for reinsertion.

    In some cases, battalions (units less than a full regiment,) would mount several cases of ammo on the back of a mule or horse and lead the loaded animal with the battalion and again stopping at a fair / safe distance behind the line issue resupplies as needed.
    Last edited by A. P. Hill; 02-06-2020 at 11:58 PM. Reason: Edited for proper terminology.

  3. #13
    That sounds like some parade field idealism.

    My honest feeling about a lot of units and their engagements is that they would sometimes shoot off their ammunition as fast as they could just so they could justify getting pulled off the line though this could possibly be a justified use of firepower. I think that was part of the military thinking at the time against rapid-firing infantry arms such as the Spencer aside from their higher costs. The lifespan of a regiment could be as short as twenty minutes even with muskets.

    Maybe it'd be easier to allow players to give other players increments of five rounds a piece. deducting from their own stockpile. Similar to the admin menu setup right now (Please God let us rebind the menu from 'E' soon before I accidentally ban someone else), requiring you to point yourself at someone and then 'give ammo.'
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  4. #14
    i hear guys running out of ammo frequently in events and having to f9, especially sharpsooter and skirmisher regiments. Hope this gets addressed sooner then later.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    That sounds like some parade field idealism. …
    Well of course it is. You asked for how resupply was handled. In a perfect world, (i.e. the parade field,) that would be the preferred way. Drill manuals also suggest this method of resupply.

    The problem as you addressed it, is in the real world where things go to shit in a hurry sometimes, yes, wagons get 'lost', bogged down at the last creek crossing, out marched, etc., etc.

    In the real world the mule (or in cases of the horse,) it bolts from the scene taking the resupply with it when it's handler is shot and looses control.

    There are plenty of articles/stories written, (even in modern warfare,) where the dead are gleaned of any usable ammunitions/grenades/etc.,/etc. So it's not so hard to believe that that practice took place during all conflicts of the world, and somehow or another managed to skip taking place during the American Civil War.

    A publication I have, talks exactly of your above stated 'honest feeling'. Though this is a publication on Henry J. Hunt the artillery master for the union, his observations were applicable across all spectrums of the battlefield. In this book it is noted that he many times admonished the artillery to be slow and deliberate in discharging their weapons. Commenting that many times batteries "burned through their ammunition" rapidly so that they could be replaced and retired from the field.

    There is no doubt that the infantry and cavalry would likely do the same, thus the commander was to constantly remind his men to fire low slow and deliberately as well.

    The best line to back this too, comes from the publication I mentioned above, "The Man Behind the Guns", in the introduction it reads:

    No doubt the story is apocryphal, but it endures because it seems to ring so true: In the midst of battle - perhaps in middle Virginia, or in lower Maryland, or southern Pennsylvania - the Federal Army of the Potomac and the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia were locked in a fierce artillery duel.
    Cannon on both sides had unlimbered and were belching fire as fast as their gunners could load and aim, yank lanyards, sponge bores, and reload. One Union battery was particularly busy, its young Captain shouting frantic orders to fire and fire again, foregoing adequate sighting between rounds.

    From out of the powder smoke rode an officer on a pale horse - a gaunt, grizzled man with a full beard, clad in a dust-covered tunic, a silver star on his shoulder straps, and a faded sash of scarlet around his waist: the uniform of a brigadier general of artillery. Oblivious to his coming the Captain called for even more rapid discharges of his guns - until the general dismounted, strode to his side, laid a gloved hand on his shoulder, and spun him about. General Henry Jackson Hunt, commander of artillery of the Army of the Potomac jabbed an accusing finger at the nearest gun and shouted above the din:
    "Young man, are you aware that every shot you fire costs the government two dollars and sixty-seven cents?" …
    The point being don't waste ammo or money, fire deliberately and slowly making that cost count.

    So yeah, my above discourse on resupply is per the manuals and an ideological settings of the parade ground. But it was practiced so that if it did work, the infantry would know where to go for resupply when they were pulled from the line, and marched off to the Ordnance Sgt., his team, and the wagon.

    At this juncture in the gamming process a supply wagon might be set up at the spawn points as opposed to being driven across the fields in these skirmishes phases, possibly when horses become available (and mules, lets hope,) maybe we can drag one across the fields with a couple 1,000 round boxes of ammo.

    But in the mean time, with death as rampant as it is in this game, gleaning from the dead could be the first iteration of resupply.

  6. #16
    Oh that's funny I just read an account today without looking for it about supplying troops ammunition in the field in dramatic fashion, possibly slightly embellished. Here's an article that expands on what I read. That's definitely an exception to the rule though and it shows how unusually dangerous it was and how common sense would lead most wagon teams to keep well back.

    Also bonus reference to pistol usage, which is almost always told as an extreme measure even by line officers. In other words if you're armed with a pistol you should never be in a situation that really requires it. You would generally always be occupied by more important duties, something the game would do well to better develop. If there was no thought put into beyond equipping players with historical loadouts then wagoneers and canonneers would abandon their duties and form expendable assault teams of pistol-wielding storm-troopers. Hence the need for more careful allotment, respawning, and missions for different roles. Gun crews should worry more about their guns and officers about their men's cohesion rather than just piling up a few kills and getting a quick respawn/reset to their previous duties if they so desire. A desertion timer is just putting a band-aid on a symptom of the problem and not going after the problem itself.

    http://unionreenactor.com/Gburg%20as...inHerdegen.pdf
    Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 02-07-2020 at 02:48 AM.
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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    Pretty interesting read. And exactly why most of the time the wagons were kept at a distance.

  8. #18

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    I don't think there's anybody who would disagree that this would be a good add to the game.

    I know it's ruining my experience. You have always been talking about how important authenticity is devs and I hope you back this one up because not being able to get additional ammunition on the battlefield is as far from being authentic during Civil War battles as I can think of. Currently guys have to kill themselves to spawn with more ammo and that is an immersion killer and hurts the team and if 10 to 20 guys have to do this during the battle think about how that can affect the outcome of the battle on those really tight ones.

  9. #19

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    Another night where 3 or 4 of our skirmishers ran out of ammo and, being one of them, had to leave our location, find the main body of troops and stand there in line hoping to get shot. Oddly, I seemed to be bulletproof, because I was there for some time. Then we finally charged and I killed a few with the one weapon I had left. FINALLY dying. Lots of wasted game minutes though and it was frustrating.
    Hope this is something that gets changed.
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  10. #20
    Perhaps an option where if you stand within spawn, you get an option to refill ammo on your screen? I’m sure that can’t be hard to put in place. When people run out of ammo they just walk back to spawn, wait for the option to come up on their screen, press the key to refill ammo and then they are good to go. No animation would even be necessary
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