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Thread: Kills and Deaths

  1. #1

    Kills and Deaths

    Kill and Death counts per unit and per individual need to be added to the game. At least 90% of the people who join this game ask, "how do I know if I killed someone?" There's no good reason for units and individuals not to know their kill and death counts. It makes the game more competitive and interesting for the players. Given how slow the development has been with this game, adding kills and deaths would add immediate value and it would obviously be an easy addition since, until the 2/1/20 patch, the info was in the game.log file.
    Last edited by Lane Meyer; 02-02-2020 at 02:14 AM.

  2. #2
    WoR-Dev Hinkel's Avatar
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    Do you suggest a direct kill feedback or showing the kills and deaths at the end of a round?

    Regarding "live" kill/hit information:

    We have no intension to add a hit information, due to tactical, immersion and of course gameplay reasons.

    The problem with a hit marker or showing a kill would be, it will take the tactical aspect out of the game.
    Imagine a line of 20 soldiers is shooting at an enemy. If each player would be able to see his own kills, the player could tell every hit directly via VOIP to his officer and the officer has a huge tactical advantage now. He is aware, how many enemies got killed and he can use this information for his advantage, like directly charging the enemy position and such.

    Without a hit marker like we have now, the officer and the players have to send out scouts, skirmishers or check the enemy position with binoculars.
    The gameplay is way more tactical, because the enemy could just "retreat" to another position or maybe lay an ambush.
    The tactical aspects like moving in formations, flanking maneuvers, ambushes and such would be gone, if there would be hit-markers. Because the player and the commanders would be always aware, if their fire is effective or not.
    Last edited by Hinkel; 02-02-2020 at 09:47 AM.

  3. #3
    I mistakenly alluded to the idea that someone should see in-game whether or not they killed an enemy soldier. I agree 100% that the game is immersive today because of the lack of a kill count DURING the game. All I really mean is that having some stats around kills and deaths (including in formation, out of line, skirmishing, tickets lost due to death, etc.) AFTER the map is over - even in just a log file - is valuable. It allows us to learn about the effectiveness of our tactics and it provides motivation to dedicate time trying to improve, both as a team and individually.

  4. #4
    I'd normally ignore yet another one of these but these kill count request effusions but they continue to be dignified with responses probably due to their pervasiveness among newcomers and growing allure among those with whom the novelty of the game is wearing off. Here's my problem with this.

    There's more benefit than the immersion aspect to not having detailed stats like that. A player in a situation with a lack of hit feedback has a couple ways of looking at it. He can be frustrated at the lack of it or he can imagine in his own mind what effect he has during a round. In the latter case players tend to exaggerate the estimates of their own damage inflicted, which is a good thing if you want players to enjoy the game. Stats are still stats if you put them at the end of the round.

    As to the organization-wide stats, I'm not really sure what this is that you speak of. 'Regiments' in-game are frequently intermixed, even within clans on the same team operating together. A player can easily forget which unit he's in or just not care or just select which of the two self-appointed officers seems like less of an idiot to follow around. Very seldom is an officer who chases away members of the other regiment and even rarer is the member who obeys such a request. So all you'd be getting is a very generic list of kills and deaths broken down between people who happen to have picked the same regiment and did whatever they did wherever they did after.

    It seems a little cockamany to want to put extra stock into something that is only meaningful sometimes all for what? So 'regiments' can compete within a team? One would hope that common sense organizational tools would arrive in the gameplay at some point which might make that make a little more sense to consider even if it is hit/miss for player enjoyment.
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  5. #5

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    At this stage in the development of this effort, the Dev Team has far more to worry about and program for than assuaging the feelings of those who think keeping track of kills as individuals is important.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Poorlaggedman View Post
    I'd normally ignore yet another one of these but these kill count request effusions but they continue to be dignified with responses probably due to their pervasiveness among newcomers and growing allure among those with whom the novelty of the game is wearing off. Here's my problem with this.

    There's more benefit than the immersion aspect to not having detailed stats like that. A player in a situation with a lack of hit feedback has a couple ways of looking at it. He can be frustrated at the lack of it or he can imagine in his own mind what effect he has during a round. In the latter case players tend to exaggerate the estimates of their own damage inflicted, which is a good thing if you want players to enjoy the game. Stats are still stats if you put them at the end of the round.

    As to the organization-wide stats, I'm not really sure what this is that you speak of. 'Regiments' in-game are frequently intermixed, even within clans on the same team operating together. A player can easily forget which unit he's in or just not care or just select which of the two self-appointed officers seems like less of an idiot to follow around. Very seldom is an officer who chases away members of the other regiment and even rarer is the member who obeys such a request. So all you'd be getting is a very generic list of kills and deaths broken down between people who happen to have picked the same regiment and did whatever they did wherever they did after.

    It seems a little cockamany to want to put extra stock into something that is only meaningful sometimes all for what? So 'regiments' can compete within a team? One would hope that common sense organizational tools would arrive in the gameplay at some point which might make that make a little more sense to consider even if it is hit/miss for player enjoyment.

    Point granted about the in-game regiments not tying well to the actual regiment/company that any individual player is part of. However, if I cared enough about it, I'd write down during the game what regiment I'm playing and then I'd make sense of it at the end. Regarding the idea that people should be allowed to believe that they contributed more than they did, I find that strange. I don't see how it makes the game more enjoyable than knowing reality, but I'm certain this is simply a matter of opinion.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by A. P. Hill View Post
    At this stage in the development of this effort, the Dev Team has far more to worry about and program for than assuaging the feelings of those who think keeping track of kills as individuals is important.

    Funny that the kill counts were in the game.log file until the last patch, so the devs had enough time to worry about taking them out. As far as "assuaging feelings" goes, I'm certain that anyone developing a product is concerned about the tastes and preferences of their customers if they care about having a successful product.

  8. #8

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    I am thoroughly opposed to individual stats, unless it were fashioned in a way as to discreetly inform players of their own contribution to their own team's ticket losses. I would wager the majority of players do not understand that it profits a team nothing to have a lone wolf go 6:2 if the two deaths were out of line and the six kills were on enemies in-formation.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane Meyer View Post
    Funny that the kill counts were in the game.log file until the last patch, so the devs had enough time to worry about taking them out. As far as "assuaging feelings" goes, I'm certain that anyone developing a product is concerned about the tastes and preferences of their customers if they care about having a successful product.
    There was, for a period of time, a third-party tool available that collated the game.log file and produced a battle report with statistics. It has been stated many times over, in many different threads, that the developers don't want any of this information made available to the player at this moment in time. The counts were removed from the game.log file to force redundancy in the third-party tool.

  10. #10

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    I have to agree with the OP on this. Recently, I was able to see numbers from a game log after a weekly event. I was amazed at what turned up. What I found was that I was doing things much more effectively than I supposed. I used to get frustrated because if firing from longer distances, I never knew if I was aiming well or too high, whatever. These results showed I was doing it well. It did not make me want to go Rambo to increase my kill count the next time I went out. But I found it a very useful tool to let me know I was on the right path with regards to my aim and judging of distances that the firing range is just not an equal substitute for.
    I think having the logs available as they once were would hardly be overly taxing for the devs, would be optional and available only for those willing to put the effort in to harvest them and can be very useful to individuals to determine how well they are doing.
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