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Thread: Artillery Progress & The Platform System Explained - May 2nd 2020

  1. #11
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
    In the video I seen that you showed 3 different types of rounds. These include Shell, Case, and Canister. Now I understood that we would have Solid which would be roundball for the smooth bores and Bolt for the rifles guns. One type of explosive round which could either be Shell which was a round packed to explode with either a timed fuse or a impact fuse. Case which is also known as shrapnel shot is similar to shell but has small balls inside the shell so that when it bursts it throws them into a line. This is where I am confused. Are we getting Shell or Case shot? Of course the last shot is Canister and we know that turns the cannon into basically a shotgun. I am quite pleased to also see we get the degrees for aiming.
    Hello,

    Our research indicates that solid shot (or bolts) were rarely a part of the limber chest of the deployed batteries. Instead, they would be fielded with what is to be available in the initial artillery version.

    You are correct that both shell and case rounds are explosive ones. The shell has a thicker metal wall with a bigger internal blast charge and fewer, but bigger balls (sometimes it didn't have any at all) inside of it while the case shot has a thinner metal wall, a smaller internal blast charge but many more smaller balls for shrapnel inside of it.

    We have been unable to find actual field tests of the exact differences of the two types of rounds but have come to the agreement of having them differ in characteristics this way in WoR:

    Shell: Will have a bigger initial blast/explosion radius (killing anyone inside of it) due to its bigger internal blast charge. It's shrapnel radius will also be bigger than that of the case, again due to the size of the blast charge - but it will also be less deadly because of the fewer pieces of shrapnel that it produces.

    Case: Will have a smaller initial blast/explosion radius due to its smaller internal blast charge (it is smaller in order to make room for the many balls). It's shrapnel radius will be smaller than that of the shell due to its smaller internal blast charge but deadlier due to the amount of shrapnel it produces.

    - Trusty

  2. #12
    RhettVito
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustyJam View Post
    Hello,

    Our research indicates that solid shot (or bolts) were rarely a part of the limber chest of the deployed batteries. Instead, they would be fielded with what is to be available in the initial artillery version.

    You are correct that both shell and case rounds are explosive ones. The shell has a thicker metal wall with a bigger internal blast charge and fewer, but bigger balls (sometimes it didn't have any at all) inside of it while the case shot has a thinner metal wall, a smaller internal blast charge but many more smaller balls for shrapnel inside of it.

    We have been unable to find actual field tests of the exact differences of the two types of rounds but have come to the agreement of having them differ in characteristics this way in WoR:

    Shell: Will have a bigger initial blast/explosion radius (killing anyone inside of it) due to its bigger internal blast charge. It's shrapnel radius will also be bigger than that of the case, again due to the size of the blast charge - but it will also be less deadly because of the fewer pieces of shrapnel that it produces.

    Case: Will have a smaller initial blast/explosion radius due to its smaller internal blast charge (it is smaller in order to make room for the many balls). It's shrapnel radius will be smaller than that of the shell due to its smaller internal blast charge but deadlier due to the amount of shrapnel it produces.

    - Trusty
    Shell
    Hollow projectile with a powder-filled cavity. Fused; exploded into 5-12 large pieces. Loud air burst terrorized troops and horses.




    Spherical Case
    Developed by British General Henry Shrapnel. Hollow shell with powder and 40-80 musket balls that exploded in all directions. Fused; used 500- 1,500 yards. More effective than shell, but more difficult to manufacture.




    Canister
    Tin can containing 27 iron balls packed in sawdust. Tin can ripped open at the muzzle and showered the balls directly at the troops. Good for repelling the enemy at close range--50-300 yards. For more devastating effect, could be used in double load. Turned cannon into giant shotgun.

    http:// https://www.nps.gov/anti/lea...ture/arty2.htm


    Last edited by RhettVito; 05-03-2020 at 07:33 AM.

  3. #13

    USA General of the Army

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    How do you plan to handle setting fuzes?
    Last edited by Oleander; 05-03-2020 at 07:38 AM. Reason: Spelling

  4. #14
    RhettVito
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    How do you plan to handle setting fuses?
    would be quite interested to know that

  5. #15
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    How do you plan to handle setting fuzes?
    We have several ideas as to how to support that without it being too much a pain as a gameplay mechanic nor too disruptive in terms of immersion. It's a balance act between the two extremes of hugely repetitive gameplay and a possibly immersion breaking one: imagine having to manually set the fuse of each of hundreds of available rounds at the start of each skirmish area with a complex (but fancy animation) opposed to be using a simple UI menu popup where you can adjust the entire limber chest content instantly. We'd like to avoid both of these extremes if at all possible as we don't think the first one is going to turn out to be good game design and the 2nd one is too disconnected from the actual game (we want as little time spent doing stuff in the UI as possible).

    We'll talk about our ideas at a later date and get your input on them as fuses won't be a part of the initial artillery version - we'd happily hear what you think would be a sleek way of supporting them however, as our ideas are still very much on the drawing board indeed.

    I should also note that the degree of effectiveness of the artillery in the initial release will play a major part in just how complex additional systems we wish to develop and put on top of it (it's of little use to bring in a very hard to master fuse system if the easier to manage initial artillery is already underperforming - on the other hand it would make sense to bring in more complex new systems to it if the initial release of it is overperforming).

    - Trusty

  6. #16
    I've some ideas for shell fusing

    For setting the fuse - since its a time fuse a simple option perhaps would be to use the corresponding number keys for seconds = 1,2,3 etc. (each second of flight time thus being associated with range). Possibly upon taking the shot from the limber the loader could be presented with a 'set fuse' option and hit the corresponding number.

    Naturally depends on how you have the shot 'trigger' either by using actual time set or a range corresponding to the appropriate time.

    Or it could be that the shell/caseshot turns ‘live’ when it reaches its set flight time and detonates either upon hitting a solid object after going ‘live’ or just explodes at the set time or even as an airburst when passing over a player/players after going 'live'?

    (could that also help with the team damage or if someone were stood in front of the muzzle… ie. the shot can’t explode if its not ‘live’? Thus, requiring the fuse to be set? 0 = impact up to 5 or 6 seconds for max range perhaps? Or have the shot 'active' in set range/time zones so it only explodes within those distances?)

    Failing to set a time or leaving it default would be an impact/percussion fuse. There were examples of combination time/percussion fuses in use especially on case shot =

    http://www.civilwarartillery.com/fuz...nationfuze.htm
    Last edited by Spud; 05-03-2020 at 10:18 AM. Reason: added a little bit...
    Coke's battery, The Williamsburg Light Artillery, 1st Virginia Artillery Regiment

  7. #17
    WoR-Dev TrustyJam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbsmith7 View Post
    The solution shouldn't be, at least only, to reduce the damage dealt by the guns. Instead, I hope CG considers increasing the complexity of the gun mechanics which will s-l-o-w the rate of fire considerably while still allowing only two players to work a gun.
    Thanks for the suggestions and ideas - keep them coming.

    Just wanting to make sure that I'm not being misunderstood. I've not talked about reducing the damage dealt by the cannons. I've only talked about taking into account the performance of them in the initial artillery release in regards to how complex any additional systems to add on top of them going forward should be (less complex systems would be preferred if the initial version of artillery underperfoms and more complex systems should be considered if the initial version of artillery overperforms).

    This is entirely guesswork at this point in time as the effectiveness of the cannons won't come into view until the initial artillery version is released for testing.

    - Trusty

  8. #18

    CSA Captain

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    I could see 3 different ways fuses could be handled. 1 allowing the person selecting the shell to set the fuse for each shell they pick up. Just a simple system where they select the number by typing it in on a small ui box that pops up. 2. A proximity system where if the code reads it is near an enemy player it will explode. On one hand this system could cut down on team kills unless someone decides to shoot at enemies that are in close proximity to friendly units. 3. A RNG based system that is similar to the AI arty we have now. Some shells would explode correctly some would fail to fuse properly or some would fuse late and explode more on contact. Though I think this last option would not be acceptable in the players eyes or the development vision.

  9. #19

    USA Brigadier General

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    is there a difference between both privates or why are they separated?

    https://youtu.be/hkjVkZ7_Ovo?t=19
    http://www.warofrightsforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=522&dateline=14500460  02


  10. #20
    Bolts (for rifled guns) were rare but solid shot for napoleons was used throughout the war. Bolts tended to tumble too much (like an American Football) while solid cannonballs tumbled and even rolled up inclines at lethal speeds.

    Obviously there has to be some variation to fuzes or crews will just learn from experience the precise azimuth and range to fire at to whatever particular fenceline they are targeting.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbsmith7 View Post
    At these close ranges, battery officers usually started thinking it is time to limber up before the horses are all killed and then the guns are lost for sure.
    It goes back to a concern I have about the actual use of the pieces in the game. You have your intended use and then you have what gamers (not reenactors) will naturally and rightfully do to compete.

    What incentive does a gun crew really have to not lose their guns? Casualties aren't really factored into the score beyond team morale. What incentive does a team have to not just load pieces with canister, hide back, and wait 'til infantry come within range of where the guns will obviously be captured. If losses do count, will artillery just be a great nuisance drain for team morale to the teams as crews stick to their guns and get wrecked? In the real world if you lose all your horses or limbers you're losing serious war power, not just for the moment, for the campaign. Can opposing teams gun crews work guns? Can infantry steal guns? Why or why not. If there's going to be full compliments of batteries on the field (there are no full representation of regiments) why wouldn't a small artillery crew just load all the guns and wait 'til they get a good target?
    Last edited by Poorlaggedman; 05-04-2020 at 05:00 PM.
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