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Thread: Duplicate Unit Clarification?

  1. #1

    Duplicate Unit Clarification?

    Hello, on the US side there's two batteries that appear to represent the same historical one. The two in question are Petit's Battery and 1stNY Battery B, which was led by Rufus Petit and known as Petit's Battery. Are these supposed to both represent the same thing, is there some other 1stNY Battery B? I was just wondering if the devs could clear this up. Thanks!
    The rightful ruler of the HRE, Holy Sloth.

  2. #2

    USA General of the Army

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    Greetings Sloth,

    Yes, oddly there were two 1st NY Artillery Batteries with the B designation.

    Pettit’s Battery 1st Regiment, NY Light Artillery which was in the II Corps 1st Division.
    Pettit’s Battery came from Chemung, & Onondaga counties and mustered Aug 30, 1861.
    Equipped with six (6) 10 pound Parrotts.


    But there was also a 1st Battalion NY Light Artillery which consisted of four batteries and was mustered in New York City.
    1. Battery A under Wever, mustered Aug 26 1861, equipped with four (4) 20 pound Parrotts.
    2. Battery B under Von Kleiser, mustered Aug 12 1861, equipped with four (4) 20 pound Parrotts.
    3. Battery C under Langner, mustered Sept 11 1861, equipped with four (4) 20 pound Parrotts.
    4. Battery D under Kusserow, mustered Sept 20 1861, equipped with six (6) 32 pound Howitzers.

    This Battalion was part of the Artillery Reserve and was attached to the V Corps, and under Commander of the Artillery Reserve Lt. Col. William Hays.



    As to why Battery B for the 1st Battalion isn’t listed the same as the others, I believe it was created long before the identification modifications were implemented in the tool.


  3. #3

    USA Brigadier General

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    But seems like the 2nd unit doesnt use the CT. You guys claimed it in the company tool. so it is yours.

    short of topic.

    Mr. Hill do you know why it the 1st NY Artillery Battalion is called light and in some sources a heavy artillery? like here

    Are the 32 pound howitzers the reason why the name isnt clear? Since they were replaced after the battle of antietam they could have been called light but i didnt find an resources so far which explains that.
    http://www.warofrightsforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=522&dateline=14500460  02


  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by A. P. Hill View Post
    Greetings Sloth,

    Yes, oddly there were two 1st NY Artillery Batteries with the B designation.

    Pettit’s Battery 1st Regiment, NY Light Artillery which was in the II Corps 1st Division.
    Pettit’s Battery came from Chemung, & Onondaga counties and mustered Aug 30, 1861.
    Equipped with six (6) 10 pound Parrotts.


    But there was also a 1st Battalion NY Light Artillery which consisted of four batteries and was mustered in New York City.
    1. Battery A under Wever, mustered Aug 26 1861, equipped with four (4) 20 pound Parrotts.
    2. Battery B under Von Kleiser, mustered Aug 12 1861, equipped with four (4) 20 pound Parrotts.
    3. Battery C under Langner, mustered Sept 11 1861, equipped with four (4) 20 pound Parrotts.
    4. Battery D under Kusserow, mustered Sept 20 1861, equipped with six (6) 32 pound Howitzers.

    This Battalion was part of the Artillery Reserve and was attached to the V Corps, and under Commander of the Artillery Reserve Lt. Col. William Hays.



    As to why Battery B for the 1st Battalion isn’t listed the same as the others, I believe it was created long before the identification modifications were implemented in the tool.

    So either way there's a duplicate in some regard right? It's just either a duplicate of Petit's or Von Kleiser's?
    The rightful ruler of the HRE, Holy Sloth.

  5. #5

    USA General of the Army

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Decimus Meridius View Post
    ... Mr. Hill do you know why it the 1st NY Artillery Battalion is called light and in some sources a heavy artillery? like here

    Are the 32 pound howitzers the reason why the name isnt clear? Since they were replaced after the battle of antietam they could have been called light but i didnt find an resources so far which explains that.
    Greetings Maximus!

    Thanks for the Question, and thanks for waiting.
    To be honest, I had to do a bit of research myself. Here’s what I found out.

    To start with “Artillery”, per the manual*, is classified in three groups. “Field”, “Siege”/“Garrison”, and “Sea Coast”. Further delving into the manual, did not produce any adequate definitions, of the terms “Light”, or “Heavy” as applied to artillery designations.

    So, to any battery of artillery calling themselves “Light” / “Heavy” it is a misnomer.
    The correct term, though not widely used, is “Field”.
    Meaning the weapons and the equipment were mobile enough to travel with the Infantry and/or the Cavalry in field operations.

    “Siege/Garrison” artillery was cumbersome though somewhat mobile and always took special operations to move the equipment. This group of artillery always took more time to travel from point a to point b, to catch up to the Infantry, and many times was transported by ship. It more often than not remained at a ready and nearby position to be called on when needed. (This was part of McClellan’s problem on the Peninsula, as he drug his siege train with him during the whole of the operations. So basically his siege train set the pace for his movements.)

    “Sea Coast” as the term applies, were mounted in permanent structures and were used in the defense of the sea coast, rivers, or bays/harbors.

    With that said, there are two distinct groups of “Field” artillery. “Foot”, or “Horse”. Now it’s important to understand that artillery terms are not as intuitive as they could be.

    A company, or "Battery" of “Foot” Artillery, was just that, they trained in this condition as the infantry would. Once the equipment was added to the unit, they became “Mounted”.
    This does not mean, as to be mounted on a horse. It means that while inactive, artillery equipment is broken down and put in storage, and when in need, was pulled from storage and then “mounted” on the Carriages.
    Only after the units get their equipment do they train then as artillery. The only personnel to be “mounted” (on horses,) were the Officers and the Drivers. The Gun Crews walked on foot.

    However, “Mounted” also has a literal definition with regard to the "Horse" Artillery only, as all the members of the unit are mounted on horses so they can keep up with the cavalry.

    Back to the term “Light”.

    Further research highlighted that this term has nothing to do with the weight of the equipment or the bore size of the guns or weight of the ammunition used by the unit, but would more appropriately apply to the "Horse" Artillery, as a means of mobility, or being rapid of movement. But again, it is not an term as accepted by the military, and it is not used in the manual. And as noted, it wasn't even understood by the artillery batteries of the time or the men who served.

    The term “Field" Artillery would apply to all "mobile" cannon from the 6 pound smoothbores, through to the 20 pound rifles, and in some cases, 24 pound and 32 pound Howitzers. 30 pound Guns and up, (including mortars,) would belong to the Siege/Garrison, and Sea Coast artilleries, though there were a few 30 pound guns that were moved with various forces as Field equipment. (The Army of Northern Virginia had two 30 pound Parrotts in it’s possession at Fredericksburg. The Army of the Potomac brought in some 30 pound Parrotts as well as 4.5 inch rifles.)

    Artillery was organized much like Infantry in that each company/battery was close to being equal to an infantry company, (approximately 110 men,) and in fact were called companies, until the term “Battery” became more prevalent. Like the Infantry, these batteries were organized into Regiments consisting of 10 to 12 batteries in most cases, however, some states did provide “Independent” batteries, and this was mentioned usually in their designation as such.

    So I hope I was able to provide a satisfactory answer for you Maximus, (and anyone else who was interested.)

    *In this case, “Manual” refers to my personal copy of “The 1864 Field Artillery Tactics. Organization, Equipment, Field Service” as published by the U.S. War Department, and authored by William French, William Barry, Henry Hunt.

  6. #6

    USA General of the Army

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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyRomanSloth View Post
    So either way there's a duplicate in some regard right? It's just either a duplicate of Petit's or Von Kleiser's?
    Greetings Again Sloth.
    Based on the description of the unit which I cut and pasted from the Company Tool, it would appear the unit you're associated with needs to rename itself per the Company Tool as Von Kleiser's Battery B 1st Battalion NY Artillery. That would clear up any future confusion and eliminate any misnamed duplicates.

    And, No, if you get your group to rename as mentioned, there will be no duplicates, as Pettit's Battery used 10 pound Parrotts, and Von Kleiser's used 20 pound Parrotts.

    If I'm making any sense.

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