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Thread: Rifle Commands

  1. #21

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    Interestingly I'm looking at "The Volunteers hand book"
    this has an abridgement of hardee's infantry tactics listed as "adapted to the use of the Percussion musket in squad and company exercises, manual of arms for riflemen"

    it appears to be by capt j. k. lee of the first regiment of virgina volunteers. it's dated 1861.

    The detail on page 30 for Loading and firing lists @ action 4. Charge-Cartridge 149: "Fix the eye on the muzzle, turn quickly the back of the righ hand towards the body, in order to discharge the powder into the barrel, raise dhte elbow to the hight of the wrist, shake the cartridge, force it into the muzzle and leave the hand reversed, the fingers extended, the thumb extended along the barrel.

    it then goes into drawing and ramming the cartridge.
    source for that is here: http://www.storymindmedia.com/angrya...onfederate.pdf

    So it's plausible at this point that both were perhaps used? I have got the 1861 US infantry tactics one here and your quote is verbatim Thomas and spot on, considering the minie bullet and it's grooves however, I would honestly think that to be loaded without paper rather than with, and this would be regardless of whether the tallow mix was considered lubricant or anti-fouling mixture.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melonfish View Post
    Interestingly I'm looking at "The Volunteers hand book"
    It use hardee's tactics. That is, how you move your formation.
    But use the manual of arms for muskets..
    Shoulder arms is in in the left hand. And its load in 10 times... not 9 times...

    The manual of arms for rifles, show up at page 65 near the end of the book.



    Gilhams Virginia handbook similar use Hardee's tactics* for how the formation move. But use the manual of arms for muskets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonfish View Post
    your quote is verbatim Thomas and spot on,
    That is because the PDFs I use have the text as text, so I just copy and past it.
    Any errors is because of adobe making mistakes in the conversion.





    * His book is actually just a translation of the french "Ordonnance 1845".
    Since it was not copyrighted (being a book written for the federal government) his text is copied word for word in a number of other books. .. and some of them changing wording here and there.
    Last edited by thomas aagaard; 12-13-2018 at 06:59 PM.
    Thomas Bernstorff Aagaard

  3. #23

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    Yes, the text Melonfish posted is literally a direct translation of the French manual. Interstingly, while it might be translated from the 1845 or 1832 manual, the actual sentence was simply taken from the 1791 manual. So you can see how few of the things actually changed in the manuals.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olafson View Post
    Yes, the text Melonfish posted is literally a direct translation of the French manual. Interstingly, while it might be translated from the 1845 or 1832 manual, the actual sentence was simply taken from the 1791 manual. So you can see how few of the things actually changed in the manuals.
    A musket is a musket. The part that changed was the part involving the priming with the conversion to percussion from flint.

    the main changed was the speed the evolutions was done at.
    Scotts old (translation of the 1832) manual was done in common time, and only rarely and only with specific orders done in quick time.
    Hardee's (translation of the 1845) manual is always done in quick time with both double quick and the run used.


    And changing from 3 ranks to 2.
    Thomas Bernstorff Aagaard

  5. #25

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    Yeah, though there is a official order from Napoleon himself, that from now on, all movements are to be done in quick time. So in theory, while the manuals stated that common time was to be used, quick time was actually the prevalent timing.
    The 1791 can already from in 2 ranks, where it is supposed to be done in peace time only, but yet again we have an order from Napoleon that orders his troops to form in 2 ranks. That was jut before the battle of Leipzig. You can also see that the 1816 and 1832 manuals both start doing more in double ranks. For example they explain how to stack arms in both 3 and 2 ranks. So the evolution was quite gradual.

  6. #26
    Thx to the input and this site http://www.explicitlyclear.com/wp/pr...do-this-wrong/

    I have a couple of examples here

    Present-Arms_Springfiel1861.jpg
    weapon Springfield 1861

    The main thing was to get the thumb right and forearm horizontal and resting against the body
    Last edited by Major Animator; 12-18-2018 at 02:44 PM.

  7. #27
    Attachment 10265
    Weapon Enfield 1853
    Last edited by Major Animator; 12-18-2018 at 03:11 PM.

  8. #28

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    looks good.

    The left hand might be a bit to much "forward" on the weapon. But it is bit hard to see because of the small size of the picture. So Iam not sure.

    As he comment "The left hand is halfway between the sight and the lower band, with the thumb touching both the barrel and the stock; "
    But it is always a bit of a question, when using another model of musket, then the one the book is thinking of.


    Question: how tall are the soldiers in the game? 180cm?

    It is relevant because back then the typical soldier was more like 165cm, It is a detail one must remember when looking at photographs and trying to compare it to how reenactors do.
    (or in this case how animated soldiers in a game look when they do it)


    And yes the guy who write that blog do know what is is writing about.


    Note his article on "right shoulder shift arms"
    http://www.explicitlyclear.com/wp/right-shoulder-shift/

    But it is my impression that there are some technical limitations to getting that one right?




    Quote Originally Posted by Major Animator View Post
    Attachment 10265
    Weapon Enfield 1853
    Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator


    But great that you are working on improving the animations.
    Thomas Bernstorff Aagaard

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas aagaard View Post
    The left hand might be a bit to much "forward" on the weapon. But it is bit hard to see because of the small size of the picture. So Iam not sure.

    As he comment "The left hand is halfway between the sight and the lower band, with the thumb touching both the barrel and the stock; "
    But it is always a bit of a question, when using another model of musket, then the one the book is thinking of.
    The same Animation will be used on different weapon models, so we are aiming at getting the left hand between the sight and the lower band


    Quote Originally Posted by thomas aagaard View Post
    Question: how tall are the soldiers in the game? 180cm?

    It is relevant because back then the typical soldier was more like 165cm, It is a detail one must remember when looking at photographs and trying to compare it to how reenactors do.
    (or in this case how animated soldiers in a game look when they do it)
    Yes we noticed that early on in the game, looking at old civil war pictures of soldiers they all looked to have bigger weapons then the one I was animating with.
    But we had the weapons sizes right so we found the average size of the male population around that time and implemented that, right away. : )


    Quote Originally Posted by thomas aagaard View Post
    And yes the guy who write that blog do know what is is writing about.

    Note his article on "right shoulder shift arms"
    http://www.explicitlyclear.com/wp/right-shoulder-shift/

    But it is my impression that there are some technical limitations to getting that one right?
    Good we have the reference right.
    I have read the article on right shoulder shift and when I will work on that animation again I will refine it to match those specifications.
    The technical limitations will again be that we use the same animation with different weapon models.


    Thx for reply Sergeant : )
    Here is a larger picture of present arms.
    with a Pattern Enfield 1853

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